Typology discussions

[Zigzag Idiot]

What is the total of the combination of your known typologies? Or maybe simply, I'm Virgo, or whatever your type is, as a part of Inquiry.

Im also a counter phobic type six in Helen Palmers specs.Its behind why I never learned the Briggs-Myers typology because as a counterphobic type 6, I'm overcompensating anti-authority. My type six-ness isn't gonna bother with that "conventional baloney".

Being an adrenal essence (body) type I can work more towards giving my energy to Self observation or right action instead of belligerent attitudes. But it's easier said than done. I can observe the results of my efforts either way.

share a little, share a lot,,,,

[tsuki]

• Enneagram type six, counterphobic
• MBTI - INTJ

It's strange that we're both sixes and I actually took great value in learning MBTI.

Edited January 3, 2019 by tsuki

[Toby]

MBTI: INTJ
Enneagram: antisocial sx/sp 5
Ayurveda: Vata with a bit of Kapha

[Zigzag Idiot]

7 hours ago, tsuki said:

• Enneagram type six, counterphobic
• MBTI - INTJ

It's strange that we're both sixes and I actually took great value in learning MBTI.

My reasoning may be skewed.

One possibility I considered is the part of myself still in tier one.

Type Six: The Questioner/The Frenetic. The independent mindset at the
Orange level reduces the ability to trust in an outside authority and Type Six,
The Questioner, must look inward for authority. Yet, Type Six still questions and
doubts her inner authority. Questioning the inner authority, combined with
needing external scientific proof, leads Type Six to become the Frenetic. Faith
in an external authority is mistrusted. There is also a drive for material security,
which can be procured only through one’s own actions. This drive can create
courageous action through risk taking to seek ways to advance, forcing through
fears and questions (Ooten, Unpublished; Ooten, 2010).

Type Six: The Questioner/The Champion. As Type Six, the Questioner
becomes aware that “going it alone” doesn’t bring security, she turns to trusting
others. In allowing herself to trust others, she begins to learn to trust herself. She
finds connection with others through serving as the Champion for underdog
causes, the downtrodden, and the disenfranchised. In the egalitarian mindset of
Type Six in the Green level, she still does not trust authority figures, and she does
not trust herself as an authority (Ooten, Unpublished; Ooten, 2010).

 

These were taken from

http://www.consciousdynamicsllc.com/home/levels_of_consciousness.html

The personality types described at each Spiral level.

 

[Zigzag Idiot]

The Keyserling Wheel 'types' Combination of enneagram, Astrology and more

I labeled a few of the descriptions to help orient direction

 

The time planets took their significance from their spatial Zodiacal "Homes". Each time planet corresponded to a space Zodiac sign where it was said to be at home. This is shown on Keyserling's Wheel. The order differed between the traditions. But Keyserling has been able to harmonize these differences and synthesize all of the traditions. Now that we have knowledge of all of the planets, not just the five visible planets known to early Man, we arrive at the following time cycles. This shows the twelve basis types of human potential associated with each time cycle. The chart also shows the relation to the grammatical parts of speech.

THE TWELVE BASIC HUMAN POTENTIALS

The planets symbolize the twelve archetypal human capacities or potentials which can be realized in time. They are divided into subsets of nine and three. The twelve potentials of time follow the basic pattern of the mind. The one or two word "Meanings" given above for these concepts should be understood very broadly. The words are "cluster words" which represent a wide spectrum of related capacities which come within that basic field of consciousness. They are like the twelve sides of a diamond which are unified by the crystal center of pure light - the Awareness behind the diverse manifestations of the Self.

The Keyserling Wheel 'types' Combination of enneagram, Astrology and more

The meaning of the basic times can be learned by study with someone who has attained mastery. Even without direct contact with a teacher, much can be learned by introspection of the drives and personalities within yourself as described in the last Methods/Experiments section. The observations need to be guided by a rational understanding of the basic structure behind the personality types. The following is a summary by Losey of the nine-fold system of personality types with both positive and negative traits, plus the three historical types. This should be used as a starting point for understanding, not the gospel.

HEAL/UNIFY: SPIRIT-FEELING. The basic meaning of conjunction - 1 - pertains to synthesis, to unification and healing. Its archetypal symbol or myth is Jupiter. It is the holistic capacity to fit everything together, to heal by reconciliation. It is the "both-and" counterpoint to "either-or" rational analysis. The complementary impulse is the fifth, to discern and judge. The personality type dominated by the conjunction category is known as the "Giver" or the "Helper", always trying to do good, to help or heal others. This personality type - with good and bad traits - is concerned, possessive, manipulative, demands affection and approval, and tries to become indispensable to others, but can also be genuinely caring, compassionate, empathetic, warm-hearted, generous, supportive, loving and even saintly.

CREATE/PRODUCE: BODY-SENSING. The noun - 2 - symbolizes the basic drive to creativity and production, to the physical realization of ideas. Its archetypal symbol or myth is Venus. The complementary impulse is the seventh, the impulse to destroy what has already been created and to start something new. When this one impulse controls, an "Epicure" or "Generalist" type of personality results. This type can be sophisticated, hedonistic, extroversive, accomplished, and excitable. They tend to be dilettantes, producing superficially in many areas, concerned primarily with appearances, things and wealth. But they can also be multi-talented, real, practical, productive, prolific, sensitive, joyous, with an eye for beauty, good living and grace.

Gemini-  

KNOW/UNDERSTAND: SPIRIT-THINKING. The verb - 3 - pertains to understanding, to relation of abstract concepts. Its archetypal symbol or myth is Uranus. Uranus is the desire to know, to understand. The complementary impulse is the twelfth, to be inspired, mentally moved directly, without any thought or analysis. The personality type is "the Thinker" or the distanced "Observer". This type can be the ivory-towered intellectual, the "know it all" expert, the recluse, who maintains an emotional distance both from others and himself. They tend to be analytic, eccentric, insightful and paranoid. They can also be truly knowledgeable, open-minded, with great genius, intelligence and original, comprehensive ideas.

WISH/IMAGINE: SOUL-FEELING. The preposition - 4 - symbolizes imagination, the need to fantasize and dream. Its archetypal symbol or myth is the Moon. The complementary impulse is the tenth, hard-headed responsiveness and duty. This personality type is the "Tragic Romantic" or the far out "Artist". They are attracted to the unavailable ideals, the absent lover, the unattainable, rather than the here and now. They tend to be tragic, romantic, depressive, suicidal, individualistic, introverted, artistic and self-absorbed. They can be emotionally rich, sensitive, funny, intuitive, creative, in touch with their dreams, and of course, have a great imagination.

Virgo-me basic gestalt,, 

ANALYZE/DISTINGUISH: SPIRIT-SENSING. The adjective - 5 - pertains to analysis, to distinguishing one from another. Its archetypal symbol or myth is Mercury. Mercury involves qualitative discernment and the impulse to judge and rate. It is the "either-or" dissective counterpoint to "both-and" synthesis. The complementary impulse is the first, healing synthesis. The personality type is called the "Status Seeker" or "Performer" or "Motivator". They can be narcissistic, deceptive and pretentious, more concerned with the appearances and trappings of success in their work than with real accomplishments. They are frequently self- assured and energetic, but often too quick to accept the easy answer to a problem, and try to succeed in work through narrow specialization, frequently failing to see the forest for the trees. They tend to be the "Type A" personalities who are ambitious, overly-competitive or "work-aholics". They can also be genuinely-productive, authentic, good motivators and promoters, efficient, knowledgeable and accepting of their limitations, with many outstanding inner qualities and good judgment.

COMMUNICATE: SOUL-THINKING. The verb-person - 6 - stands for the drive to communicate, to explain, to relate to and with other people, and to improve yourself and others. Its archetypal symbol or myth is Neptune. It involves social intelligence, empathizing and dealing with people. Neptune also pertains to polarities: right-wrong, good-bad, rich-poor, innocent-guilty. The complementary impulse is the eleventh, the historical role of leading or following. When Neptune dominates, the personality type is the "Reformer" or the "Perfectionist". They tend to be overly-critical of themselves and others, idealistic, orderly, perfectionistic and intolerant. They think of themselves as superior and use the words "should" and "must" a lot, and can be self-righteous, opinionated, petty crusaders. They can also be conscientious, reasonable, principled, self-disciplined, with personal integrity and tolerance, astute insights, great communication skills, clarity, and a profound knowledge of self and others.

Scorpio-

FIGHT/INITIATE: BODY-FEELING. The pronoun - 7 - basically pertains to initiative, to fight and start something new. Its archetypal symbol or myth is Mars. It is initiative, the visceral drive to get up and go, the entrepreneurial spirit. The complementary impulse is the second - Venus - to complete something by creativity, the finishing touches of creative embellishment. The Mars personality type is called the "Boss". He or she can be strong, combative, loving to take charge and fight, to protect self and friends, and quick to anger. They want to lead, to start things up, sometimes dictatorially, but sometimes with heroic self-restraint, magnanimity and courage. They can be powerful, expansive, self-confident, decisive, authoritative and commanding, but also selfish, ruthless, violent and destructive.

ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY/RESPOND: SOUL-SENSING. The adverb - 8 - pertains to organization, responsibility and duty; to assume responsibility for some social situation or group, a problem or opportunity, and to organize or direct it until conclusion. Its archetypal symbol or myth is Saturn. The drive arises out of circumstances created by others and constitutes a response to it. The complementary impulse is the fourth - Moon - imagination, the urge to dream, to visualize something new which has never been before, rather than to see something which already is and respond to it. The Saturn-dominated personality is called the "Loyalist" and can easily become either an establishment, traditionalist "organization man", or an anti-establishment, non-conformist "devils advocate", a rebel without a cause. They are likable, ingratiating, dependent, loyal to groups or a cause, and can be masochistic, doubtful, unsure, ambivalent, indecisive, authoritarian, bureaucratic, and overly-conformist. Trust and permanent solid relations with others are important. They can also be engaging, appealing, committed, reliable, trustworthy, dependable, cooperative, endearing, and of course, very responsive and responsible.

Aquarius-

INVENT/ACTUALIZE: BODY-THINKING. The verbal forms - 9 - pertains to the impulse to orchestrate, to plan, to invent, to engineer and actualize based upon a sense of what is possible. Its archetypal symbol or myth is Pluto. The complementary impulse is the tenth, the historical drive to individuality. The personality type is the "Mediator" or "Peacemaker", who tends to be easy going, calm, peaceful and reassuring. They can be passive, disengaged, repressed, unoriginal, ambivalent, overly self-effacing and accommodating, seeing all points of view but their own. But they can also be excellent negotiators, profoundly receptive, aware, supportive of others, good-natured, genuinely nice, unpretentious, patient, original, inventive, with autonomous self-reliance, self-assurance and equanimity.

Leo-

AFFIRM: BODY-WILLING. The statement - 10 - has a meaning which does not pertain to a personal impulse or personality. Like the 11th and 12th impulses it lies outside of the Enneagram. The archetypal symbol or myth of the tenth is Lucifer. Lucifer symbolizes the newly-liberated, collective historical drive for individual liberty, the affirmation of the rights of the individual. It concerns the mastery and affirmation of personal skills and of Ego. The complementary impulse is the ninth, Pluto, the drive to invent something new based upon the discoveries of others.

LEAD: SOUL-WILLING. The sentence which orders - 11 - also has a meaning outside of individual personality, pertaining to a historical compulsion to lead society or to follow a leader, to obey. Its archetypal symbol or myth is the King. The complementary impulse is the sixth, Neptune, to relate and communicate with people, to persuade or be persuaded by reason, rather than to lead or follow.

INSPIRE: SPIRIT-WILLING. The questioning sentence - 12 - symbolizes a state of inspiration, to inspire others or be inspired, in the context of an historical role. Its archetypal symbol or myth is the Queen. The complementary impulse is the third, Uranus, the drive to spiritual realization through understanding rather than inspiration.

AWARENESS: ESSENCE. Symbolized by the Sun, Awareness is not really an impulse or part of speech. The Sun symbolizes the awareness behind all of the other impulses, the essence behind and linking the different personalities. It stands for the Higher Self beyond the Ego, a state of higher consciousness, of light. The pure Awareness pulls together and integrates all of the diverse aspects of our Self into a cohesive whole. We first become aware of the Higher Self in peak experiences, and then eventually by mastery of all of the other impulses, we start to live in the light and a higher pattern emerges.

from

http://www.chanceandchoice.com/course-overview/time-cycles/

Edited January 5, 2019 by Zigzag Idiot

[Zigzag Idiot]

On 1/3/2019 at 0:22 AM, Toby said:

MBTI: INTJ
Enneagram: antisocial sx/sp 5
Ayurveda: Vata with a bit of Kapha

Thanks 

Took a look at Instinctual subtypes. sp/sx seem to apply.

I googled Ayurveda and after brief study concluded in general that I'm a combination of Pitta and Vata.

This typology seems vaguely related to ectomorph - mesomorph - endomorph

[Zigzag Idiot]

On 1/2/2019 at 11:52 PM, tsuki said:

• Enneagram type six, counterphobic
• MBTI - INTJ

It's strange that we're both sixes and I actually took great value in learning MBTI.

I think Claudio Naranjo proposed a third kind of type 6, The fanatic ,,, Counter phobics that we're ectomorph in body type. I'm a mesomorph but a cerebrotonic mesomorph. I may be what he was calling a fanatic or partly one,,,,?

I can't find my copy of Naranjos book Character and Analysis.

im going to go ahead and try to determine my MBTI sometime soon

[Toby]

"the fanatic" is the social 6. Sometimes seems like a 1.

All 6 subtypes can be counterphobic or phobic. 

[Zigzag Idiot]

MBTI - ISFJ

[Aquarius]

Sun sign - Aquarius

Chinese Year sign - Fire Ox

Jungian Archetype - The Innocent

MBTI - ENFJ-A

Personality type - Type-A

Spiral dynamics - Coral

Edited January 30, 2019 by Aquarius

[Aquarius]

Here's something cool you guys might enjoy: 

 

Tarot Archetypes of the Major Arcana

THIS ARTICLE WAS WRITTEN BY CORRINE KENNER 
POSTED UNDER TAROT

Technically speaking, an archetype is a primal pattern of thought—inborn, instinctive, and imprinted on every human’s subconscious mind. Carl Jung, a psychotherapist and a colleague of Sigmund Freud, was the first person to popularize the theory of archetypes. He studied dreams, myths, and legends, and concluded that we’re all born with an innate ability to understand archetypes. In fact, he said, we’re all pre-programmed to look for archetypes in our everyday lives, because they serve as a framework for our understanding of the world. Jung’s descriptions of commonly recognized archetypes include the hero, the maiden, and the wise old man. Other archetypes include the anima, the feminine aspect of a man’s personality; the animus, the masculine aspect of a woman’s personality; the mother, which typifies a nurturing, emotional parent; the father, a physical, protective parent; the trickster, or rebel; and the shadow, the hidden, antisocial dark side of human nature. 

Every card in the Major Arcana embodies an archetypal figure:

 0.  The Fool is the happy wanderer who sees the world through the eyes of a child. Most tarot experts agree that the Fool represents each of us—naive travelers through life, off on a grand adventure, out to learn whatever experience the tarot can teach us.

 1.  The Magician is the skilled and cunning master of all he surveys. He represents an individual in control of life’s tools and techniques, like those on the table in front of him. Typically, they include a cup, sword, pentacle, and wand—the four symbols of the Minor Arcana.

 2.  The High Priestess is the enigmatic keeper of spiritual secrets. Secretive and guarded, she knows the secrets life holds—but she shares them only with the wise.

 3.  The Empress is the archetypal mother who nurtures and protects all of her creation, including humankind.

 4.  The Emperor is the authoritative protector and provider who rules the known world. A father figure, he brings order out of chaos so that civilization can prosper.

 5.  The Hierophant is a symbol of traditional authority and influence. He’s the head of a hierarchy, determined to maintain his religious and cultural traditions.

 6.  The Lovers embody the twin principles of opposition and attraction. While an appearance by this couple could encourage any hopeless romantic, the card also signifies a choice to be made between two equally strong desires.

 7.  The Chariot is a vehicle for forward motion and change. The young charioteer is in command of his physical and emotional drives, even when they seem to oppose each other.

 8.  Strength is the lovely lady with the heart of a lion. She gently holds the jaws of a powerful wild cat, patiently controlling a force that could otherwise eat her alive.

 9.  The Hermit is a recluse, far removed from the hustle and bustle of everyday life. He reflects on spiritual concerns, and carries the light of wisdom as a beacon for others to follow.

10.  The Wheel of Fortune is the spinning wheel of destiny and fate. Because nothing is certain but change itself, the Wheel of Fortune reminds us all that what goes up must also come down.

11.  Justice is both the giver and enforcer of laws. As the ultimate arbiter, she holds a two-edged sword—a reminder that fairness cuts both ways.

12.  The Hanged Man sacrifices his comfort and passions for a time, knowing that better things will occur as a result. He is the visionary who sacrifices one life to be rewarded with another.

13.  Death is the card of transition. Like the Grim Reaper, who clears away all that cannot survive, the card depicts the turning of a page, the completion of one chapter of life, and the exciting start of a new story.

14.  Temperance is the archangel of balance. With dexterity and grace, Temperance demonstrates that moderation can serve as a bridge to wholeness.

15.  The Devil is the dark and shadowy side of our existence. With tongue firmly in cheek, he demonstrates how a selfish devotion to material possessions and ill-conceived passions can tie us down and keep us from true happiness.

16.  The Tower is a forceful clearing of pent-up energy that strikes like lightning. It’s a bolt from the blue, and it can shake any overbuilt structure to its foundation.

17.  The Star is a shining light in the darkness. Like the goddess of the night, she’s the blithe spirit who offers hope, inspiration, and guidance.

18.  The Moon is the ever-changing mirror of the sun, and a symbol of the unconscious mind. From its perch in the night sky, the moon represents secrets and mysteries that may not be understood—or even recognized.

19.  The Sun is a symbol of consciousness and action. It’s the center of the universe, and the source of heat, illumination, and life on earth. 

20.  Judgment reveals all, heralds the dawn of a new world, and stands as a reminder of the power of forgiveness.

21.  The World depicts the never-ending, spiral dance of life. It’s a card of completion and success—as well as the chance to start another round.  

From Tarot for Writers, by Corrine Kenner

 

Source: 

https://www.llewellyn.com/journal/article/1951 

[Zigzag Idiot]

@Aquarius Thanks!

There is a correlation between the 21 Major Arcana of the Tarot and the "Science of Idiotism".

[tsuki]

On 30.01.2019 at 9:54 AM, Aquarius said:

Spiral dynamics - Coral

@Aquarius I'm curious, can you actually look yourself in the eye in the mirror and say that out loud with a straight face?
The more I think about spiral dynamics (and even life in general) - it all seems like a device that reflects ones self-image.

[Aquarius]

On 2/1/2019 at 9:59 AM, tsuki said:

@Aquarius I'm curious, can you actually look yourself in the eye in the mirror and say that out loud with a straight face?

It's that little Narcissus devil speaking on my shoulder, ignore me if you must.  

On 1/31/2019 at 8:35 PM, Zigzag Idiot said:

 

Simply beautiful. *tear rolls down on my cheek* I desire. 

How does one acquire such beauty in one's library, please? 

Jk lol I'll google it, seems worthy of my attention. I hope I won't need a priest after I read it.  

[tsuki]

On 2.02.2019 at 8:19 PM, Aquarius said:

It's that little Narcissus devil speaking on my shoulder, ignore me if you must.  

Hey, I was just curious what do you get from calling yourself coral.
I didn't intend to offend you at all. In fact, I'm still curious.

I used to (silently) think that I'm turquoise, but I'm probably green/yellow.

Edited February 3, 2019 by tsuki

[Aquarius]

@tsuki I knoow, it was a joke! I am laughing at myself lol.  No worries, you didn't offend me.

And even if you did I am responsible for my reactions and emotions.

All of these categorizations are mere models, some are more widespread, some aren't. Some are older, some are emerging. I simply identified myself with something that resonated. I know you meant I seemed a bit arrogant, I mean, that's a pretty high level, but I didn't say it out of ego. It's all meaningless, after all. Didn't mean to brag. I think green and yellow can be wonderful if developed with patience.

The spiral model takes hours to study. It's a mere self-development tool based on psychological observations. Some people tell me I'm more turquoise than coral, but that's because those people are either green or turquoise themselves and turquoise doesn't see the stage above him. None of these stages are better or worse than others, each human being is equally valuable and every stage can have negative and positive manifestations, depending on the individual's psychology. Besides, the spiral model was meant to represent the dynamic between societies, from what I heard, but it's also used by individuals to develop themselves.

If you feel yellow is comfortable, then remain there and become the most positive version of yellow. Learn everything about yellow. Not every human wishes to evolve further on the ladder. Sometimes we can develop and evolve within a specific stage, and a positive yellow is still better than a negative turquoise manifestation.

It is said that Coral correlates with the Boddhisattva, in case you wondered.  

Sometimes I can regress into green when I'm depressed. I had to visit a psychiatrist after my enlightenment because I couldn't handle it, it was too fast, it broke my mind in a sense. Fun times.

So yeah my point is that it's not worth going somewhere that isn't comfortable. No need to feel inadequate, in case that's how you feel about the whole model of the spiral. 

Edited February 4, 2019 by Aquarius

[tsuki]

@Aquarius My inner animal smells a slight sense of superiority from you. You may call it my insecurity if you feel like it.
Anyways, thanks for your explanation of what spiral dynamics is and your encouragement to feel comfortable picking a seat.
I find both of these kind of insulting, but I know that we've never talked before and you're probably just cautious with your response.

I choose not to identify as any particular SD stage because I think that it is ridiculous to cultivate an identity in a system that is built around a hierarchy. (That's very green/turquoise of me, isn't it?). I think that any color I choose to pick is, ultimately, my choice and reflects my self-image. Any development within this system is therefore not a development of me, but of my thoughts about myself.

Edited February 4, 2019 by tsuki

[Zigzag Idiot]

The four times three types and card meanings,,,

I hope Ted's preachy cadence doesn't scare you off. When he says something ridiculous, it makes it 10x as funny.

 

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Zigzag Idiot

[Aquarius]

22 hours ago, tsuki said:

@Aquarius My inner animal smells a slight sense of superiority from you. You may call it my insecurity if you feel like it.
Anyways, thanks for your explanation of what spiral dynamics is and your encouragement to feel comfortable picking a seat.
I find both of these kind of insulting, but I know that we've never talked before and you're probably just cautious with your response.

I choose not to identify as any particular SD stage because I think that it is ridiculous to cultivate an identity in a system that is built around a hierarchy. (That's very green/turquoise of me, isn't it?). I think that any color I choose to pick is, ultimately, my choice and reflects my self-image. Any development within this system is therefore not a development of me, but of my thoughts about myself.

I don't feel superior at all, honestly. And even if I felt that way, would it really matter much on the grand scale of things? My feelings about myself have no reason to impact your way of life, objectively speaking. What I'm trying to say, I wasn't attacking you, you literally asked me to share and explain my views, and so I did. 

I won't call your reaction 'insecurity' because I have no way to know your inner world or why I seemed superior to you. In fact, you don't seem insecure at all to me, in case you wondered. 

From my perspective you misinterpreted my intentions. Sorry if what I wrote has offended you in any way, I had no intention of attacking neither you, nor your views. I'm on this website to help others and to grow myself, so I have no reason to hurt someone doing the same. I only tried to be kind and understanding and to share my recent experiences, thought you'd find them interesting and helpful. Though luck on my part, such is life it seems.  

I respect your choice, and I did say the spiral is just a model, and there are millions of other models by millions of other people. In fact there are probably at least 10 versions of the SD model in itself, because people develop it and such and such, at least from what I saw. Leo's video is also just his interpretation about the model. You're free to have your own interpretation. Just know the the SD model is not a hierarchy. It's easy to be seen that way. No stage is better or worse, or higher or lower than others. It's much like evolution. Is a chicken better than a dinosaur? No, it just evolved to fit its environment! lol 

If you don't agree with me, that is fine, but please please attack my ideas, not me. ;p If I really wanted to dominate and feel superior, would I have really been so honest to tell you and to the whole community I've been at the psychiatry cause I'm so weak that I cannot even handle a simple awakening? 

Did you perhaps view my authentic kindness as a way of trying to covertly belittle you? Because I didn't do that. I'm a very direct person. If I had anything to say to you personally, I would've done so. Everything I said in my last post was about me and about my views. 

[Aquarius]

It was unclear to me what the term 'typology' means because I'm not a native English speaker, but I did some research on it. I assumed the SD model is a typology. Now it is clear to me that I had no reason to mention it. Shit happens.  

Edited February 5, 2019 by Aquarius