Self-discipline vs Freedom

[Aquarius]

2 hours ago, Yousef said:

You don't suffer anymore! ! I seriously doubt that. .

I don't care about what you think. I am (have) all I need. Namaste. 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Aquarius
clarification

[non_nothing]

@Joseph Maynor I'd say rather than control, I can't really find myself with identifying any activity. Sure I can do things. It's like I can start doing things. But after a while, It all loses it's interest over me and I drop it doing completely. This tis not a thing I am bothered. It's funny actually. I cannot identify with anything or take anything  serious. Literally.

2 hours ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

The master is doing many things while not doing anything. (Zen rephrasing)

Remember that the truth is neither of the terms, so there's neither discipline, nor lack of discipline. The answer is ineffable.

 

It arises as a temporary solution in the realm of manifestation until one realises there's no use for it.

 

It sure can, but it's really up to you.

 

To reach effortlessness, one must first exert effort.

 

Be very cautious saying this. This is when the master hits you with a stick and ask: "Then who is it that screams." No-self implies self, and therefore is self. To truly know what it means one must contact it directly. 

One cannot take non-dual truths, and then use them to logically conclude things about the dual, or really believe any non dual truth. These two paradigms are incompatible. Very dangerous activity, Bodhidharma refers to it as devilry. (The zen teaching of bodhidharma - amazing book!)

 

 

In any case, self discipline is one of the best things that ever happened to me. Meditation is self discipline. Obviously it's best when it's matched with self-compassion, lack of expectations, and learning to love it, as Alan Watts puts it: Work as play.   

The exception is meditations. I can't see it as a "doing/activity". It's like breathing for me. Recently I asked the ultimate question for myself once again and the answer come out as, I'd just meditate for no reason my entire life and die happily about it. For some reason, meditations started to have a very special direct experience for me.

 

[non_nothing]

On 12/17/2018 at 11:33 PM, tsuki said:

Freedom and restraint are not exclusive, but interdependent.
Freedom is the possibility of performing an action, but the action itself results in restraint.
For example:

• you are free to choose your style of clothing, but your style is expressed by choosing to not wear certain combination of clothes.
• if you have money, you are free to spend it, but spending it constrains it to a certain physical form (a good) that is not as easily convertible back to pure potential (freedom/money). 
• you are free to earn money, but this action results in certain set of behaviors that is constrained by the work culture.

When it comes to self-discipline - you are willingly constraining your behavior in a way that you find beneficial.
No constraint and no freedom are actually ultimate and you can always chose back to not discipline yourself.
This is why it is difficult and we admire people that can commit to it.

Very  beautiful man. Very. I am so grateful for your time and help. Thanks.

@tsukiA question: Did you mean "goal, ultimate goal" by the word Ultimate?

[tsuki]

1 hour ago, non_nothing said:

Very  beautiful man. Very. I am so grateful for your time and help. Thanks.

You're welcome.

1 hour ago, non_nothing said:

@tsukiA question: Did you mean "goal, ultimate goal" by the word Ultimate?

Ultimate, as the absolute? No. What I meant is simply that freedom itself is constrained.
It is constrained by the fact that we cannot be free from it (from freedom itself). We cannot renounce it.
Even if you exercise your freedom by committing to meditation, you are always free to un-commit yourself.
This is why self-discipline is difficult if you are a mindful person.

There are of course people that are unconsciously self-disciplined. They have been whipped in to this shape by their environment.
They are not able to question the validity of this self-discipline and it is easier this way in a sense.