Ego development through the stages of spiral dynamics

[Faceless]

2 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I’m helping myself first and foremost.

Sure, I’m helping myself as I see the truth in the fact that I am not an individual, but am humanity itself. This division is only manifestation of the divisive structure of thought. 

So yes selfishness in that sense ?

 Never been much into looking for approval though. I actually take a natural interest into all this. Understanding the thought-self is interesting

Edited July 14, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

1 minute ago, Etagnwo said:

@Faceless lol. You're just responding to your version of my words..You clearly have no idea what I'm suggesting, you just project your own assumptions. Maybe Joseph can grasp what I'm saying...maybe not. 

I’m not attacking man. I am understanding what you are saying. 

[Faceless]

@Etagnwo

I understand what you were implying, and I agree with a lot of it. I also agree with the spiritual bypassing phenomenon that you suggested. This thread is about ego, so I just wanted to point out the programmer is the programmed fact. 

You know, It doesn’t have to be a battle between us man. We are related whether you like it or not. ??‍♂️

Edited July 14, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

Ok ?

[Faceless]

I will get back on in a while. Got to make some dinner 

[Faceless]

We will have to go slow into all of this with the intention of actually “sharing” 

 

i would like to start with the beginning and makes sure commune before we go on. If that is agreeable. 

 

49 minutes ago, Etagnwo said:

The programmer is the programmed. But that doesn't mean that it can't integrate insight.

This part needs to be ironed out. 

 

How can the original program, which is fragmented as the i who clings to its own movement-content, which implies fear, bring  about integration? 

 

Can we integrate that which is fragmented by its very nature, the program “the i”? 

 

Could we say that as long as this fragmentation remains that there will be contradiction as a result of that? 

 

Can there be integration when there is mechanical contradictory patterns still at work as the i who clings to its own movement in order to self sustain? 

 

Integration(wholeness) implies no contradiction. What do you think buddy? 

I will be off and on tonight. 

Edited July 14, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

6 minutes ago, Etagnwo said:

@Faceless You should be debating with the big boys. You're wasted on here clueless ... I mean faceless 

If not much into debating man. I just like to communicate with people. To me debate is usually two points of view arguing with one another without the intention of communing.  I’m not really concerned with that. I just like talk about this stuff because it’s important to me, and I see that you have a similar interest. 

 

But i would never get involved in debate. I like to communicate with real everyday people, with every day problems. Problems of thought-self(the conditioned consciousness. 

 

Anyway you are a sharp dude, I’m always willing to listen to what you have to say. 

 

[Faceless]

26 minutes ago, Etagnwo said:

But just think of the audience you could reach? If you have the truth beyond all of our models and that all this psychological work is needless and pointless then you're doing humanity a disservice by being on here with your one and a half (potentially 2) followers. 

You could be up there with JP.  Problem with that is it's easier to get debunked when you're in the spotlight.  Safer down in the dungeon here with Rob and Charlotte as students, that way no critical thinking can obscure your work. 

I think you misunderstand what I am doing. I am not a teacher, i am not a follower, and share the significance of not following in general. Authority is the reason the world is at is. I share the significance in not depending on anyone to handle psychological problems. For me freedom came when I saw the futility in moving in accordance to fear. This takes absolutely no teaching whatsoever. Anyone can do this on there own. Again this is what I am passionate about. I like to share with robdl & charlotte becusee they are interested as am I. 

I don’t really know much about any mainstream authority figures, and respectively, when it comes to psychological matters they are irrelevant. Psychologically authority is inefficient and actually quite destrcutive. I’m interested in showing people that they can figure out there psychological problems without any authority. I did it myself, and I feel other can as well. 

And Im quite content with discussing things with robdl and Charlotte. In fact it’s a joy to do so. Along with anyone else on the forum and in my daily life, who is actually interested in this. 

Edited July 14, 2018 by Faceless

[Joseph Maynor]

28 minutes ago, Faceless said:

I think you misunderstand what I am doing. I am not a teacher, i am not a follower, and share the significance of not following in general. Authority is the reason the world is at is. I share the significance in not depending on anyone to handle psychological problems. For me freedom came when I saw the futility in moving in accordance to fear. This takes absolutely no teaching whatsoever. Anyone can do this on there own. Again this is what I am passionate about. I like to share with robdl & charlotte becusee they are interested as am I. 

I don’t really know much about any mainstream authority figures, and respectively, when it comes to psychological matters they are irrelevant. Psychologically authority is inefficient and actually quite destrcutive. I’m interested in showing people that they can figure out there psychological problems without any authority. I did it myself, and I feel other can as well. 

And Im quite content with discussing things with robdl and Charlotte. In fact it’s a joy to do so. Along with anyone else on the forum and in my daily life, who is actually interested in this. 

I don't mean to pile on, but you're always playing the role of teacher.  I never see you ask anything.  And I find that you don't take well to people teaching you.  It's always you offering someone else insight.  It's a one way street with you.  So, you are playing the role of teacher.  Just to be clear.  I'm not saying that alone is bad, but let's not deny reality either.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Faceless]

47 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I don't mean to pile on, but you're always playing the role of teacher.  I never see you ask anything.  And I find that you don't take well to people teaching you.  It's always you offering someone else insight.  It's a one way street with you.  So, you are playing the role of teacher.  Just to be clear.  I'm not saying that alone is bad, but let's not deny reality either.

When I post onthe forum what I write is something that can be seen in every one of us. What I share isn’t something that you yourself cannot see directly in yourself. I simply am able to observe all this phenomenon of thought-self and I only mirror it here on the forum. What I share is already there in yourself. I do ask questions all the time. When I post random responses on threads I may say things a certain way to spark interest(a subtle form of click bate), but ultimately I always tell people who ask me directly for help that they ultimately are responsible to go about it on there own. 

Like with robdl for example, we both help one anohter quite a bit. In fact I have never been one to learn in a teacher student exchange. I learn better by going into things together as two or more people looking to solve the same problem. Robdl actually to me is very wise and humble. This is the kind of person that really offers great insight to solve daily problems of the mind. 

Mostly what I write is sharing about the importance of understanding thought-self. Any significant learning in this area (psychological) is always done by ones own direct observation. I never learned anything extensive from anyone else, and they will be mistaken if they think I can offer “the goods”...especially when it comes to capturing that which is sacred. 

But everyone has something to share. The best way to think of it is we are all students of life. 

Thanks for the heads up Joseph. I will make sure to make it quite clear that I am only a partner in this whole journey of life. 

 

P.s. I know you are interested in being a teacher, and am sorry for implying that would be destructive. As long as we are honest with ourselves and others here will be no problem. ??

Edited July 14, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

7 minutes ago, Etagnwo said:

Abstraction and rationalisation. Insidious ego defence mechanisms.

I mean, it's so obvious that you're playing a role but completely in denial about it. That's weird. It feels weird. I think Joseph finds it weird too. Not weird as in anyone is judging you for it, just weird that your lying to yourself and others and the absolute lack of self awareness you demonstrate. You really don't know what awareness actually is. 

Ok ..thank you 

[Charlotte]

7 hours ago, Etagnwo said:

Self actualization is a western concept, which is about actualizing your potential

I don't want to actualize my potential, I want to strip myself away and be more aware of the 'thought-self'. I'm more interested in the mechanics of the self rather than adding to the self. 

8 hours ago, Faceless said:

When you have seen this all holistically it you it will unfold on its own. “You” won’t take be taking anything further. Truth will act on it’s own. Don’t worry. Try not to get caught up in stages, progression, and all that thought fuel. All that perpetuates measure, thought-egos favorite

Yeah, I clearly haven't seen it holistically yet, but I've been quietly observing it in myself and others. More so fear. 

8 hours ago, Faceless said:

Have you talked to @robdl anymore since the last time? I feel he can also point you in a direction that will be of value. We may also be able help you connect the dots as to see a more holistic understanding of the self-thought. We may be able to show you the significance-importance in passive awareness as well perhaps. 

I haven't no, I don't want to put people out. That would be awesome thank you ❤️

 

8 hours ago, Faceless said:

But ultimately you observing the fact that is going on in yourself is of most value. Without controlling-influencing of course.

Of course.

8 hours ago, Faceless said:

Anyway it’s impostant to not be doing all of this merely to solve “your” problems. Think of this as understanding questions to “human” problems born of thought-self.

Totally get what you mean and I'm not in this to solve anything, I'm in this out of sheer deep interest. Think of the self as an illusory magic trick, I want to become aware and learn the movements of the trick. 

 

8 hours ago, Faceless said:

Anyway maybe you, i, and @robdl can go start a dialog-conversation of sorts. We can walk together in this. After all, we are all beginners of life. 

 This sounds amazing! Thank you so much for your time and patience ❤️?

[Charlotte]

Depends what you by "potential"

[Charlotte]

I do apologise, I misunderstood what your definition of potential was. 

I've observed my fear when it comes to Psychedelics and my problem lies within going to the unknown, losing control. I don't suffer with anxiety outside psychedelic use. 

[Charlotte]

Yes, my OCD I thought you were referring to panic attacks/anxiety attacks. I meant I don't suffer with anxiety/panic attacks outside of psychedelic use. It's only when I take psychoactive drugs that this panic occurs. 

[Charlotte]

@Etagnwo Don't know if you read but a while back I basically spiked with THC and this triggered a four hour panic attack. My first ever. (I'd not taken weed in years and years so I got majorly stoned but without expecting it because I had put trust in the person that sold me the CBD oil).

Since that day I feared it because it was something I'd never experienced before. 

So fast forward to microdosing, it popped up again unexpectedly, I didn't imagine I'd trigger more. I did feel they were necessary though in order to overcome them. 

So basically, whenever I microdose I still get small bouts of anxiety. Like I said I've observed the fear and my fear lies in not being able to let go and go into the unknown, losing control. Thought of "am I going to trip" "did I take too much" "my mum had a schizophrenic episode am I going to trigger one" etc etc. 

Edited July 14, 2018 by Charlotte

[Charlotte]

No yeah I agree. It's me creating the issue. 

What's it done for me? Well it's reduced panic attacks by around 90% but yeah it hasn't got rid of them completely. How would I? I'd like to be chill with everything like I used to. 

[Charlotte]

Because I'm extremely interested in the movement of thought and the self and how it's incredibly illusory. Like I said "I'm creating the issue" the self! ? 

[Charlotte]

You said...

15 minutes ago, Etagnwo said:

So why are you going on the wild faceless and Rob goose chase? 

I said... 

7 minutes ago, Charlotte said:

Because I'm extremely interested in the movement of thought and the self and how it's incredibly illusory

You said...

1 hour ago, Etagnwo said:

Yes but it's still a part of your disowned psyche manufacturing the emotion of fear, isn't it? There is nothing else except your psyche lol. There is no outside world shaking it's finger at you telling you that you ought to be afraid

Referring to my fear so I said...

8 minutes ago, Charlotte said:

Like I said "I'm creating the issue" the self! ? 

I don't understand what's so hard to understand about that ?

Can I ask a personal question, baring in mind I could be wrong. 

From where I'm sat you seem to like picking at people, I don't think I'm the only one to notice this either. Are you here to genuinely help or criticize people? If your offering genuine help without judgement I'm all ears, if your here to just pick at people I'll leave you to it ✌️

[Charlotte]

@Etagnwo

2 minutes ago, Etagnwo said:

LMAO

Thought so. 

Peace out brother ??