Stage Orange and Science. Thoughts?

[The Don]

Hello.

If we disown the orange stage how can we ensure human existence?

We need science to evolve technologically and preserve life.

In reality there is no such thing as good or bad. Reality doesn't care about human extinction. Reality can't care. Reality doesn't have feelings. Reality is intelligent but can't think as humans do.

For example if the Sun dies we die. Without technology how are we going to be able to go to another planet and save our existence?

Do we need something from the "Orange Stage"?

Without EGO "Orange Stage" is not important.

I want your thoughts on this.

[Leo Gura]

Disowning reality does not work.

The purpose of Spiral Dynamics is to help you OWN every stage. That can only happen when you understand that every stage is necessary to the functioning of the whole.

Yes, even Nazi's are necessary. OWN it.

Everything is you.

[Hotaka]

Not disown, wisdom , pull the threads a bit and the word was shining through. If we wisdom science we can ensure human existence. Without wisdom in unbiased perspective based on absolute presence, there is no way science can come up with unbiased results of any kind. It can only come up with persuasions for the general public and tickets to a glory ride for the scientist, unless it is grounded in true facts, then it is objective in a full way, with true measurements being made, if something is occurring in a context inviting of ACTION (then it contextually makes sense for the good of the world). So you are not disowning this, (shakti), but are leaving it's own current to travel (self-active system) and you watch it and see it as an experiment while you are in stillness as it travels onward. That is how your mind thinks for you. For this the system needs to slowly be acclimatized to a homeostatic trendline that never jumps too much. This also means the system is not a brain in a vat, where your brain activity couldn't be directly physically related to the immediate physical environment, but is open and has desire as a baseline in it's connection to the natural environment based on vicinity and salience (how close, how familiar). Intention gives a measuring scale for space and time (space=knowledge, time=pain). No beginning and no end as an assumption is a good place to start, without pain, because if the person is in meditation, the scientist, words and meaning can be seen from an absolute context, without 'thinging it'. This is where God reflects the mirror of words, but without presence of wind (turbulence) and conveyor belts of belief, to ensure objective perception increasingly without disturbance. It is healthy and self-feeding if you open the dam. Knowledge.

In Buddhism they call the objective measurement of mental states or any state of affairs with a still mind: analytical meditation. Lama Yeshe talks on this a lot. Also Michael James mentions this in his book Happiness and the Art of Being. So learn to be a scientist with your mind by taming it and training the snake (functions on objective automatic principles but is dynamic through time - pavlovian conditioning), learn to train this snake called shakti, and then when you see that it is efficient enough, you can only give it little tips here and there while this snake is travelling, then it will see meaning, and research will be automatic and spiritual as well. Why not?

[aurum]

10 hours ago, The Don said:

If we disown the orange stage how can we ensure human existence?

You've misunderstand what Spiral Dynamics is about.

When you transcend into a new stage, the purpose is not to throw everything in the trash about the previous stage. It's to recognize it's limitations and move forward.

Let's look at an example.

Just because you ate and slept today doesn't mean you're stage Beige. That's because while you realized that you do need to eat and sleep, there's more to life than that. There are limitations to stage Beige.

At the same time, what if you never went through stage Beige? What if you decided you just wanted to be Turquoise and never learned the importance of eating and sleeping? You'd be dead.

So nothing of true value is ever lost when you transcend a stage. You simply take the good, discard the bad and move forward with your new awareness.

Nobody is suggesting we stop using technology. But there are limits to technology and how effective it can be at solving problems. Mainly, that it doesn't account for the psychology of the people using it.

What people need to do is recognize that technology is a reflection of our inner world. So if you want to make technology that will actually save the planet, turn inward first and see what's going on inside.

[tsuki]

@The Don Orange has its limitations because it sees no alternative approaches to solving problems that it perceives.
We came out of the stone age not by disowning stones, but by seeing them as something that is basically the same as other things.
We still use stones when we see them as appropriate. For building roads, for example.

Just imagine a society in which science is as common and uninteresting as stones in modern times.
A society in which science is so incorporated into the fabric of existence that you don't even think scientifically anymore.
Science as raw material in which you build tools to solve problems.
This is what we can achieve when we transcend orange.

Edited June 25, 2018 by tsuki