Do Not Put Enlightenment On A Pedestal, It Will Not Get You Anything, It's Just A Developmental Stage

[Oleg F]

First of all, let me save you years and years of self-inquiry work.

Don't get lost in endless self-inquiry. By seeking Enlightenment continuously, your Lower-Self Ego will prevent you from reaching Enlightenment. You will get trapped in seeking Enlightenment forever.

Explanation: You do need to do your self-inquiry work and get a taste of your formless (out-of-body) state. Then just stop chasing it. And you will get permanent Enlightenment. If you continue chasing it, your Lower-Self Ego will keep feeding you that lie about you not being good enough YET to be Enlightened. Sound familiar?



Second, let me let you in on a secret. Enlightenment is not the be-all and end-all. Just like with all the previous stages of psychological development, you can start seeing the limitations of Enlightenment and start looking beyond. And you WILL find something beyond. Though, you do NEED Enlightenment to move beyond. So Enlightenment does serve a very very important purpose as it stays with you into the higher stages of your development.

Explanation: When you are Enlightened, you still have family and coworkers and/or employees who are more than likely FAR from Enlightenment. You will start seeing the limitations of your Enlightenment when you look at yourself and see how you try to make everyone around you Enlightened. And/or when you see how you start avoiding everyone so you can go back into your meditation so you stop being irritated by all the unenlightened. And when you realize how silly this is, you begin wondering whether you hit a dead-end in your spiritual development...


Third (and this point combines and expands the previous two points), MOST people start seeking Enlightenment and they get really excited BECAUSE they think, once Enlightened, the Universe will just start throwing money and perfect relationships at them. There is this vibe, that once a person reaches Enlightenment, they will get something in return: maybe discover their important purpose in life (hello Ego), or their business all of a sudden will be making money left and right, or every relationship will be with an enlightened person, or you just get happy permanently and don't have to develop further. This is absolutely false.

You still go back to living in form, in your body, among regular people who will trigger various emotions in you. And there is no need to go back to meditation and bully yourself into sitting in the out-of-form state. The human in-body state and the emotions are actually there for a reason. They are a signal for you to transcend your Enlightenment into the next stage, in which you embrace the in-body state just as much as the out-of-body and you begin to serve all beings unconditionally.

[WelcometoReality]

1 minute ago, Pinocchio said:

All development, all change, occurs in the dream of duality. Enlightenment is waking up out of the dream. There is nothing beyond.

How do you know?

[WelcometoReality]

5 minutes ago, Pinocchio said:

I've done my homework and eliminated the impossible. Everything you know is of duality, and duality is impossible. The only thing that cannot be eliminated and cannot be of duality, is the knowing itself. Consciousness.

"When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

So if knowing is of duality and you know there is nothing beyond consciousness aren't you still in duality?

 

[Ramu]

1 hour ago, Oleg F said:

First of all, let me save you years and years of self-inquiry work.

Don't get lost in endless self-inquiry. By seeking Enlightenment continuously, your Lower-Self Ego will prevent you from reaching Enlightenment. You will get trapped in seeking Enlightenment forever.

Explanation: You do need to do your self-inquiry work and get a taste of your formless (out-of-body) state. Then just stop chasing it. And you will get permanent Enlightenment. If you continue chasing it, your Lower-Self Ego will keep feeding you that lie about you not being good enough YET to be Enlightened. Sound familiar?



Second, let me let you in on a secret. Enlightenment is not the be-all and end-all. Just like with all the previous stages of psychological development, you can start seeing the limitations of Enlightenment and start looking beyond. And you WILL find something beyond. Though, you do NEED Enlightenment to move beyond. So Enlightenment does serve a very very important purpose as it stays with you into the higher stages of your development.

Explanation: When you are Enlightened, you still have family and coworkers and/or employees who are more than likely FAR from Enlightenment. You will start seeing the limitations of your Enlightenment when you look at yourself and see how you try to make everyone around you Enlightened. And/or when you see how you start avoiding everyone so you can go back into your meditation so you stop being irritated by all the unenlightened. And when you realize how silly this is, you begin wondering whether you hit a dead-end in your spiritual development...


Third (and this point combines and expands the previous two points), MOST people start seeking Enlightenment and they get really excited BECAUSE they think, once Enlightened, the Universe will just start throwing money and perfect relationships at them. There is this vibe, that once a person reaches Enlightenment, they will get something in return: maybe discover their important purpose in life (hello Ego), or their business all of a sudden will be making money left and right, or every relationship will be with an enlightened person, or you just get happy permanently and don't have to develop further. This is absolutely false.

You still go back to living in form, in your body, among regular people who will trigger various emotions in you. And there is no need to go back to meditation and bully yourself into sitting in the out-of-form state. The human in-body state and the emotions are actually there for a reason. They are a signal for you to transcend your Enlightenment into the next stage, in which you embrace the in-body state just as much as the out-of-body and you begin to serve all beings unconditionally.

Like I've stated previously in a different topic on the same category; once awakened or enlightened, it does not mean you stop working at your job or stop paying bills.  The only difference is you are aware of a truth that others who are not awakened or enlightened are not aware of.  It doesn't give you superpowers, just a different conscious perspective.  You still think and experience emotion, you just don't identify yourself with them.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Ramu
Typo

[WelcometoReality]

 

4 minutes ago, Pinocchio said:

Everything you know is of duality, and duality is impossible. 

How do you know that there isn't something beyond consciousness if knowing is of duality and duality is impossible.

All I know since I woke up from duality is that I don't know. I can assume that there is nothing beyond consciousness, but I don't know.

[WelcometoReality]

@Oleg F Are you talking about the surrendering that happens after the awakening?

[Ayla]

4 hours ago, Oleg F said:

First of all, let me save you years and years of self-inquiry work.

Don't get lost in endless self-inquiry. By seeking Enlightenment continuously, your Lower-Self Ego will prevent you from reaching Enlightenment. You will get trapped in seeking Enlightenment forever.

Explanation: You do need to do your self-inquiry work and get a taste of your formless (out-of-body) state. Then just stop chasing it. And you will get permanent Enlightenment. If you continue chasing it, your Lower-Self Ego will keep feeding you that lie about you not being good enough YET to be Enlightened. Sound familiar?



Second, let me let you in on a secret. Enlightenment is not the be-all and end-all. Just like with all the previous stages of psychological development, you can start seeing the limitations of Enlightenment and start looking beyond. And you WILL find something beyond. Though, you do NEED Enlightenment to move beyond. So Enlightenment does serve a very very important purpose as it stays with you into the higher stages of your development.

Explanation: When you are Enlightened, you still have family and coworkers and/or employees who are more than likely FAR from Enlightenment. You will start seeing the limitations of your Enlightenment when you look at yourself and see how you try to make everyone around you Enlightened. And/or when you see how you start avoiding everyone so you can go back into your meditation so you stop being irritated by all the unenlightened. And when you realize how silly this is, you begin wondering whether you hit a dead-end in your spiritual development...


Third (and this point combines and expands the previous two points), MOST people start seeking Enlightenment and they get really excited BECAUSE they think, once Enlightened, the Universe will just start throwing money and perfect relationships at them. There is this vibe, that once a person reaches Enlightenment, they will get something in return: maybe discover their important purpose in life (hello Ego), or their business all of a sudden will be making money left and right, or every relationship will be with an enlightened person, or you just get happy permanently and don't have to develop further. This is absolutely false.

You still go back to living in form, in your body, among regular people who will trigger various emotions in you. And there is no need to go back to meditation and bully yourself into sitting in the out-of-form state. The human in-body state and the emotions are actually there for a reason. They are a signal for you to transcend your Enlightenment into the next stage, in which you embrace the in-body state just as much as the out-of-body and you begin to serve all beings unconditionally.

Everything you wrote here, are common traps for people that never understood the reality of what Enlightenment really means. 

Nothing you wrote here is true for the Enlightened person. 

 

[WelcometoReality]

8 hours ago, Pinocchio said:

If you read carefully, I said everything you know is of duality, the knowing itself cannot be of duality. There is no duality, there is only the illusion of the knowing of duality. The knowing is what exists, the known does not.

If consciousness is nondual, it is absolute and infinite. How can there be anything besides that. How can there be two-ness when there is only one. Anything beyond consciousness would necessarily be more duality.

You didn't wake up from duality. That's just your interpretation, based on an incomplete understanding of what duality is. There would be no room for questions like these, they are all based in duality. Which means you haven't done your homework, you assumed you already had it figured. As is the norm.

When in the state of duality, duality seems real.

When in the state of oneness, consciousness does seem infinite and absolute.

It is when we break through to the higher state of consciousness we realize that the former state was an illusion. We cannot know that there is or isn't a higher state.

There is no homework to be done, nothing to figure out. That will only be a belief, illusion. There is only acceptance of not knowing.

[Leo Gura]

It's funny how discussions about non-duality turn into yet another dick measuring contest, "No dude! My non-duality is more non-dual than your non-duality."

Hehehe...

[Ayla]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

It's funny how discussions about non-duality turn into yet another dick measuring contest, "No dude! My non-duality is more non-dual than your non-duality."

Hehehe...

Except when you're a girl  

[WelcometoReality]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

It's funny how discussions about non-duality turn into yet another dick measuring contest, "No dude! My non-duality is more non-dual than your non-duality."

Hehehe...

Yes Leo. We are measuring our formless dicks.  Great point. Talking about non duality in duality language sure has it's limitations.

[Kevster]

Exactly,

One wants to prove his 'vision' on enlightenment. The other 'feels' threatened' and states he isn't right, but his' is. The other should do his homework. The other feels threatened again and tries to pinpoint the others 'invalid' arguments. Either way it is of no help to the work. 

 I think it is much more helpfull to give every person is own right to be at his own developmental stage. Whether he is at the stage of 'nihilism' or some other. If he is willing do the work, he will find out for him or herself eventually. 

Discussions about non-duality is fundamentally flawed, as it becomes a philosophy again. It is just as with RSD for instance, guys who have seen too many videos and are walking encyclopedia's citing everything they know just to sound like they know everything but when push comes to shove they don't have a clue what they are talking about. I do not know and perhaps I will never know.  

[Hunter Arrington]

9 hours ago, Ayla said:

Everything you wrote here, are common traps for people that never understood the reality of what Enlightenment really means. 

Nothing you wrote here is true for the Enlightened person. 

 

This information seems fishy. Eckhart Tolle has said the same things that this gentlemen was saying.

[WelcometoReality]

@Kevster It might seem harsh but it's just communication without dancing around ego.

[Kevster]

@WelcometoReality Doesn't seem harsh at all. I actually really hope this is THE PLACE where we are free to point on eachothers bullshit. Perhaps even with some truth-based arguments and without Blaming or discussion about right or wrong, but at least bring some clarity to it. That's how we proceed. I have enough of my own bullshit. Yet I say this and it must be a lie, cause I bullshit myself as well. But it will be much much and much appreciated if someone just blows right through it. I hope it will hurt. 

But if we can give a truthfull meaning to the arguments it will be a 'good'thing. 

 

[Walter B]

Replying to the title of this thread.

That's bullshit.  It's quite effective in self discovery.  And cleansing the mind of the bullshit from other people who would influence your thoughts. 

The hard part of maintaining enlightenment is establishing "difference".  Or better stated to overcome the "indifference" that comes with being in this state.  Why do you think people push control mechanisms like religion or political parties or groups in general.  Some of it is a great thing and when you can find pure rules or "differences" to live by then that's great.  But be aware that people easily try to push their own "differences" onto others to influence them to their side.  Like in that fucking book by Carnegie.  So, few people can be trusted with that kind of power or influence over others.  So, our only refuge is simply to blow that shit off and ignore it best we can.

[TruthSeeker]

Why did pinnocio remove his posts?

[Oleg F]

I wanted to thank everyone for their responses. Some interesting and valid points were brought up and I can't say that I disagree with anyone.
 
To make myself more clear, I am going to add that Enlightenment is very real and it does serve a purpose.
It does two important things: 1. lets you experience the formless state (the other end of the spectrum of human experience); and 2. enables you to see WHY you are doing everything you do from the moment you wake up to the moment you go back to bed.
Enlightenment is a crucial step. But nevertheless, it is just a step.

"Enlightenment Stage2" work BEGINS when the enlightened YOU walks out their front door and begins interacting with the unenlightened. How do you interact with a raging Christian when they want to kill Muslims? Do you try to enlighten them about non-duality? You know it will never work, yet you still try to feed them your non-duality philosophy.
Some of you may say "Well, an Enlightened person is OKAY with a raging Christian and accepts them the way they are". Yes, that mindset works until it doesn't. It works until you are faced with a close friend who is a raging Christian. And that is where real Enlightenment work begins. You cannot enlighten people with your logic. You cannot enlighten a person with your charts and graphs about human psychology. To them, it all sounds like the Anti-Christ.
And you certainly cannot go back to your meditation room because you know that you are hiding from what lies ahead in your development.

After Enlightenment there is a return to selfishness, so to say. When you, once again learn to do something for yourself. Instead of beating yourself down for having negative emotions and forcing yourself into the formless state, you are learning to open up to all emotions. You are learning to relax your body and do things which make you feel better when those emotions arise.
You need to learn to serve yourself because this prepares you for the next stage. The next stage is where you begin serving the raging Christian, opening up to their emotions, and much like you did for yourself, you begin loving and serving them (in a non-violent way of course) to relax their body and make them feel better. This breaks the pattern of rage and in turn affects all beings.

After that, you begin seeing that no matter where you are (your physical location) - you are there for a reason. And the reason is to serve someone next to you. It becomes so obvious at some point that it almost seems like somebody wrote a to-do list for you without you knowing about it. Anywhere you appear - there is a task for you to do, serving another being.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Oleg F