Anyone been following Russell brand’s rape trial?

[Wilhelm44]

17 minutes ago, integral said:

Dont worry elon wont ban his accounts.

He will, he has no choice. 

[Jirh]

4 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Coupled with this, many people will claim it's a total mood killer to be so explicit regarding consent. But then simultaneously argue consent needs to be given. Enthusiastically to boot. 

I am confused as a woman. Now imagine most men in this scenario. Take into consideration men can have lower EQ and deal with the biological drive for sex overriding rationality... 

Thank you for bringing up this topic.

Like you said, it is tricky. I think it's one of the most under-discussed topics in sexuality, even though it's one of the most important ones.

I think many women find it difficult to be explicit about consent mainly because it conflicts with social ideals of purity and good/accepted behavior. Women often feel like they must maintain some level of resistance to sexual desire, and that's understandable for many reasons.

Also, I would imagine explicitly asking for consent to feel like resetting the woman's emotional state, because subconsciously she knows if there was a real connection, there would be no need to ask, he would just get her and know what she needs and do it without asking. It disrupts the flow of the connection she thought was there, which would likely kill her mood. This is because optimal emotional connection doesn't rely on verbal language, but on subtle body language and reading between the lines.

Also, for some women, saying 'no' actually feels more empowering than saying 'yes', because it's easier to say yes, not as much agency in allowing than in disallowing. And in this case, saying 'no' feels like total freedom and ownership of own body.

Lastly, saying 'no' to the right person could be an expression of experiencing a profound level of safety. For some women, saying 'no' can be particularly difficult because they're used to being compliant from a young age. It feels risky and wrong to stand up and assert themselves as a free human with a free choice. It feels like rebellion against the rules.

For me (an ex low EQ male), I think it's better to have at least one flirting session with a girl before assuming attraction. She must be comfortable flirting with me first. Then she must voluntarily let me get close enough to her for physical escalation. This is partly why I generally prefer waiting a few dates before any physical contact and a month or a couple of months before sex. This way everything is clear, and I'm sure I won't be misunderstanding or crossing any lines by mistake. And even then, sometimes I ask before I do something new. Like I put my hand somewhere and look into her eyes and ask her if it's okay. Only once that was met with a firm no. And I respected that.

Edited 1 hour ago by Jirh

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Jirh appreciate your thoughts here. I think your approach is nuanced, intelligent and mature. This subject is so charged when I talk about it with my friends.

It makes me think of PUA and LMR techniques. If LMR is seen as "token resistance" instead of genuine refusal, it could train some men to blow through women's boundaries. Not all PUA techniques are coercive, and not every instance of persistence is sexual coercion. This is another grey area of consent that really irritates my girlfriends. I can't even bring this up without it being labelled coercion. Even though they will also simultaneously admit they can be nervous or ambivalent - and enjoy being encouraged by a partner.

I think many times these grey areas can ( and should) be navigated together. Instead I see parties often walking away with two different interpretations of desire and consent. It usually comes back to mature communication. Dual responsibility to communicate. And here safety has a massive impact. Because some women freeze when the amygdala is activated. Pure survival reflex.

I think we really want a model of sexual ethics that protects people from coercion without stripping human intimacy of its nuance. Sound easy... But in practice....