The solution to rape.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

3 minutes ago, Majed said:

@Natasha Tori Maru I feel like you're choosing to be blind. Rape is a serious issue. And your childish moralizing won't change the seriousness of it. 

I am sorry my line of reasoning/questoning upset you. 

But this is very uncharitable.

Edited 1 hour ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Majed]

 

1 minute ago, Olaf said:

@Majed you have a hand? You can do it yourself? I have had years where I had no sex, just my hand, makes no difference, maybe emotionally feeling less connected to a person and falling in love, but by no means is this any reason to rape. Lets not normalise rape and honestly this post is getting toxic.

@Olaf You didn't explain the perspective of rapists, which just prove my point. 

I feel those who declare the most to not be rapists are the most prone to committing rape paradoxically. Why do you get so outraged if that wasn't the case? If you weren't the most prone to rape, you would feel chill and detached and able to discuss it without much friction. 

[Ulax]

@Olaf But there is nothing wrong with trying to understand the psychology of people who commit terrible crimes. It would be wrong to class that as justifying it.

[Olaf]

@Majed your thinking is completly flawed. It is like saying, if you can't explain why you would murder someone, you are prone to being a murderer. Maybe the reason you can't explain it, is because you are NOT a murderer so you DON'T understand.

[Majed]

@Olaf Hehehehehe that just proves my point. Most rapists and murderers don't think of themselves as such. Which is why understanding the logic, mechanics and reasons behind such acts is crucial to not become one yourself. 

[Olaf]

@Ulax you can't understand it, because it is not in your blood. Just like you can't explain what epstein did, because it isn't in your blood to do such things. So even if you try to understand it, you won't. Just like I can't understand a drug addict as I have never been addicted to cocaine. 

[Thought Art]

@Majed That really isn’t an implementable solution man. 

[Ulax]

Just now, Olaf said:

@Ulax you can't understand it, because it is not in your blood. Just like you can't explain what epstein did, because it isn't in your blood to do such things. So even if you try to understand it, you won't. Just like I can't understand a drug addict as I have never been addicted to cocaine. 

All of us are possible of the worst crimes. This notion of it being in our blood or not is naive.

Also, anything can be understood without needing to have a disposition for it.

[Olaf]

@Ulax intellectual understanding is speculation, real understanding is from experience, this is what Leo points out to, the difference of real knowing and intellectual knowledge, which is just speculation and projection of how it "could be like". Just as you don't know how sex is like until you have done it, a virgins idea of sex is very different from the reality of having sex. 

[Majed]

3 minutes ago, Olaf said:

I have never been addicted to cocaine. 

@Olaf You should go and try it 😋. Do it for science. 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

It is a reductionist misunderstanding of why people rape to think it can be solved with art, spirituality and connection. Sexual deprivation is extremely relevant to some individuals, but rape is a multifactorial behaviour that cannot be explained simply by a shortage of consensual sex. 

[Ulax]

1 minute ago, Olaf said:

@Ulax intellectual understanding is speculation, real understanding is from experience, this is what Leo points out to, the difference of real knowing and intellectual knowledge, which is just speculation and projection of how it "could be like". Just as you don't know how sex is like until you have done it, a virgins idea of sex is very different from the reality of having sex. 

I see. We were using different definitions of "understanding" 

[Majed]

Just now, Natasha Tori Maru said:

It is a reductionist misunderstanding of why people rape to think it can be solved with art, spirituality and connection. Sexual deprivation is extremely relevant to some individuals, but rape is a multifactorial behaviour that cannot be explained simply by a shortage of consensual sex. 

@Natasha Tori Maru I definitely agree. I think it also has to do with dark tetrad personality types which are prone to commiting such acts. 

[Ulax]

2 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

It is a reductionist misunderstanding of why people rape to think it can be solved with art, spirituality and connection.

I don't see why those factors couldn't make a major difference

[Olaf]

@Natasha Tori Maru yes I think it is a mental illness of some sorth or maybe some trauma response rather then it having to do with sex deprivation, ultimately God gave us hands to use.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

1 minute ago, Ulax said:

I don't see why those factors couldn't make a major difference

They can. But they aren't a complete solution because they do not solve across all the reasons people commit rape. The entire problem needs to be understood in full for a full solution.

[Ulax]

1 minute ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

They can. But they aren't a complete solution because they do not solve across all the reasons people commit rape. The entire problem needs to be understood in full for a full solution.

Makes sense

[Majed]

@Natasha Tori Maru I am arguing for a change in worldview. Similar to how homosexuality wasn't a thing for most of history, and still most of the world today. The idea that your sexual attraction defines your identity is relatively recent.

In many worldviews, like for example in a christian worldview, homosexuality is not a person but an act, and specifically a sin. It's like all humans are tempted towards sin, some towards some sins more than other sins, and others towards other forms of sins. But homosexuality wasn't understood to be a person's identity. 

Similarly sex IS a social construct today. The idea that you need another person to have sex or orgasm is a construct and is false. Which is why i listed other forms of love and connections like artistic or spiritual ones. 

If we erase the notion of sex altogether and replace it with love and connection we would be better as a society. 

Edited 41 minutes ago by Majed

[Natasha Tori Maru]

3 minutes ago, Olaf said:

@Natasha Tori Maru yes I think it is a mental illness of some sorth or maybe some trauma response rather then it having to do with sex deprivation, ultimately God gave us hands to use.

Fundamentally it violates the sovereignty, agency and consent of another to satisfy a need. Opposite direction of oneness, unity, and connection. 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

5 minutes ago, Majed said:

@Natasha Tori Maru I am arguing for a change in worldview. Similar to how homosexuality wasn't a thing for most of history, and still most of the world today. The idea that your sexual attraction defines your identity is relatively recent.

In many worldviews, like for example in a christian worldview, homosexuality is not a person but an act, and specifically a sin. It's like all humans are tempted towards sin, some towards some sins more than other sins, and others towards other forms of sins. But homosexuality wasn't understood to be a person's identity. 

Similarly sex IS a social construct today. The idea that you need another person to have sex or orgasm is a construct and is false. Which is why i listed other forms of love and connections like artistic or spiritual ones. 

If we erase the notion of sex altogether and replace with love and connection we would be better as a society. 

This is either changing position or qualifying what you originally meant (which is fine, sometimes we express our original premise better after review/dialogue, or we just phrased it a particular way). Sexual deprivation as the explanation for rape to a broader worldview change.

The missing mechanism is why someone who disregards another person's agency would adopt the proposed worldview, or why that worldview would prevent them from doing so?

Edited 37 minutes ago by Natasha Tori Maru