France is going wild

[LordFall]

2 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

I do believe this movement is more than just another protest.

If we zoom out a little, I think we might be witnessing a broader wave of resistance against the current system, and perhaps the beginnings of the kind of change we need as a society to move forward.

It's been brewing for years now. The current government has something like an 18% approval rating, which is pretty catastrophic. After years of mounting anger and frustration, protesters are organising themselves almost like a grassroots insurgency, ready to challenge the institutions head-on and hopefully kick the Macronie out.

I also think there's something quite particular about the French. They grow up learning about revolutions, uprisings and popular resistance, and I think that history is deeply ingrained in their collective identity. So protesting isn't just something they do; it's almost part of how they understand themselves as a people.

And for the first time, I can really sense a powerful wave of collective anger and solidarity. Police brutality against teenagers is particularly hard to stomach, even for people who would normally consider themselves moderates. I think that leaves the government with very little room to manoeuvre, as further repression could easily backfire and fuel even more anger. I don't envy their position . 

And it certainly doesn't help when, in my view, the politicians in government are mostly incompetent, talentless, sheltered buffoons who can't read the room, let alone run a country, and who seem to owe their positions more to careerist scheming, political networking and backroom manoeuvring than to any actual merit at creating effective policies.

If I recall well, 1/2 political change leading to a change in Constitution has not be made through the legal institution but outside of them. 

Right, it's also a lot of lazy, entitled people who refuse to provide value to the system. Is that really what you stand for? 

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Protests make the politicians listen. Otherwise the politicians are too comfortable and just serve the donor class.

More like it gives them the political will necessary to weaken EU's surveillance laws and will end up with Palantir like tech restoring the rule of law over this nonsense. 

Protesting is one thing, but riots damaging cities are another. Chaos and anarchy are not a tool of enlightened beings seeking to better society; they are maybe 30% that and 70% anger and bypassing one's responsibility towards society in favor of complaining and fucking shit up for easy dopamine. 

@Schizophonia What are your thoughts on the current situation as a French citizen?

Edited 3 hours ago by LordFall

[Etherial Cat]

Just now, LordFall said:

Right, it's also a lot of lazy entitled people that refuse to provide value to the system. Is that really what you stand for? 

More like it gives them the political will necessary to weaken EU's surveillance laws and will end up with Palantir like tech restoring the rule of law over this nonsense. 

Protesting is one thing and riots damaging cities another. Chaos and anarchy are not a tool of enlightened beings seeking to better society, they are maybe 30% that and 70% anger and bypassing one's responsibility towards society in favor of complaining and fucking shit up for easy dopamine. 

@Schizophonia What's your thoughts on the current situation as a french citizen? 

I'm all for providing value.

But don't kid yourself into thinking that the elites are necessarily hardworking or playing by the same rules as everyone else.

Living a good quality of life in France in 2026, especially in Paris, increasingly requires either a considerable head start in life or an exceptional ability to transcend your circumstances.

And if you think chaos and anarchy haven't played a major role in the history of political change, you might want to open a history book. I'm personally much more interested in reforms than revolutions, but I'm also aware that history doesn't always unfold according to our preferences.

For my part, I'm just here to witness the times we're living through. How the pattern unfold is not up to me.
 

[Atb210201]

52 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Multiculturalism means each country retains its own culture, imperialism is one culture world(ultimately)

What's happening in practice says something else.

It's a chaos of different cultures clashing with one another.

I think each country should honor its own culture and heritage not mix other cultures within its borders with itself.

And I do not support imperialism.

I support deals with mutual benefits for the countries that are allies or friends or neutral, sometimes even enemies in exceptional times.

Edited 3 hours ago by Atb210201

[LordFall]

1 hour ago, Etherial Cat said:

I'm all for providing value.

But don't kid yourself into thinking that the elites are necessarily hardworking or playing by the same rules as everyone else.

Living a good quality of life in France in 2026, especially in Paris, increasingly requires either a considerable head start in life or an exceptional ability to transcend your circumstances.

And if you think chaos and anarchy haven't played a major role in the history of political change, you might want to open a history book. I'm personally much more interested in reforms than revolutions, but I'm also aware that history doesn't always unfold according to our preferences.

For my part, I'm just here to witness the times we're living through. How the pattern unfold is not up to me.
 

I agree with you that the elites don't play fair and the system has massive issues.

But I say this precisely as a student of history: whenever legitimate frustration turns into mob rioting, the immediate conditions almost always get drastically worse. Burning schools, cars, and local shops doesn't touch the elites, it just screws over regular working people in those neighborhoods and gives the state the perfect excuse to roll out heavier policing and surveillance.

Tearing things down without a solid plan to build something better usually just backfires and makes life harder for normal people.

Real question here, since we are on a self-development forum: out of hundreds of thousands of protesters, what percentage do you think are spending an hour a day reading books, learning skills, or taking free online courses to build genuine leverage in their own lives? Very few.

Developing yourself is hard and takes years, joining a protest and blaming the government and the elites for your problems(even if it's partly justified) is fun and immediate but is fundamentally lazy, bypassing and also mostly doesn't work. It leads to local businesses closing and more global corporations with insurance policies that cover vandalized and looted stores. 

How many people in this past month have lost the work of their lives and have had to permanently close their small business because arrogant and wild youth thought they were hot shit and were teaching a lesson to the system? Apparently it's around 1500 businesses were ransacked, vandalized, or looted over this weekend alone.

These businesses are not Hermes outlets. They are local bakeries and coffee shops where people have their hours cut due to this if the business doesn't have to shut down as a whole. Protests also cause public transit issues for anyone needing to use it to get to work on time. You think the protestors have pity for that?   

Edited 2 hours ago by LordFall

[Elliott]

26 minutes ago, Atb210201 said:

What's happening in practice says something else.

It's a chaos of different cultures clashing with one another.

Ya, we live in an imperialist world. You think that's new?

26 minutes ago, Atb210201 said:

I think each country should honor its own culture and heritage not mix other cultures within its borders with itself.

Then why are you muslim?

[Atb210201]

12 minutes ago, LordFall said:

Tearing things down without a solid plan to build something better usually just backfires and makes life harder for normal people.

This right here is a smart way to look at it. A plan is always necessary if you're gonna do such things to actually change something.

Without a leader or a plan, it's all just a futile attempt.

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Atb210201

[Atb210201]

12 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Ya, we live in an imperialist world. You think that's new?

If pouring immigrants into your borders is imperialism then yes I think you just made a new term.

12 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Then why are you muslim?

I'm not.

But Islam in my country has strong roots at least.

You think the same about France or any other European country?

Edited 2 hours ago by Atb210201

[Elliott]

3 minutes ago, Atb210201 said:

If pouring immigrants into your borders is imperialism then yes I think you just made a new term.

I'm not.

You said you were, sufism is islam.

3 minutes ago, Atb210201 said:

But Islam in my country has strong roots at least.Islam.

No it doesn't, that's an immigrant religion, Persians were zoroastrian.

3 minutes ago, Atb210201 said:

You think the same about France or any other European country?

I'm not european. See you're trying to control other countries, you're imperialist.

[LordFall]

13 minutes ago, Atb210201 said:

This right here is a smart way to look at it. A plan is always necessary if you're gonna do such things to actually change something.

Without a leader or a plan, it's all just a futal attempt.

 

100% without a good plan protestors are just overgrown children throwing a temper tantrum and causing millions of Euro worth of damage to their own cities. 

There are so many more productive ideas. Creating entrepreneurship communities to learn how to adapt to AI and generate cashflow for the wellbeing of oneself and their community would be a good start. 

We'll see how it turns out but this is how you end up with France as a surveillance state in 2036 and robot police beating down any whiff of protest. They're gonna end up with Marine Le Pen and the National Rally sweeping the elections in April 2027.

This is the worst of the left. Angry, stupid, dangerous and making life worse for everyone due to misguided idealism. 

Edited 2 hours ago by LordFall

[Elliott]

Their plan is fund the schools, it's on their signs.....

Edited 2 hours ago by Elliott

[Atb210201]

9 minutes ago, Elliott said:

You said you were, sufism is islam.

No it's not.

Sufism is older than Islam.

Islam itself is a child of sufism.

All religions are childs of sufism.

But let this be a topic for later.

9 minutes ago, Elliott said:

No it doesn't, that's an immigrant religion, Persians were zoroastrian.

Yes but I'm saying it has at least thousands of years of history in my country. It has very strong roots and is now part of our very own culture.

9 minutes ago, Elliott said:

I'm not european. See you're trying to control other countries, you're imperialist.

So if I say a country should not mindlessly pour lots of immigrants into its borders I'm controlling and the ones allowing it and pushing for it to happen are not?

Edited 2 hours ago by Atb210201

[Atb210201]

14 minutes ago, LordFall said:

100% without a good plan protestors are just overgrown children throwing a tamper tantrum and causing millions worth of damage to their own cities. 

There are so many more productive ideas. Create entrepreneurship communities to learn how to adapt to AI and generate cashflow for the wellbeing of oneself and their community would be a good start. 

We'll see how it turns out but this is how you end up with France as a surveillance state in 2036 and robot police beating down any whiff of protest. They're gonna end up with Marine le Pen and the National Rally sweeping the elections in in April 2027.

This is the worst of the left. Angry, stupid and dangerous. 

Honestly I don't think they'll survive.

I think France and all of Europe are done for.

Sorry to any French or European here that I'm saying it like this, but I'm not seeing a good future for the European countries in the years to come.

Edited 2 hours ago by Atb210201

[Elliott]

8 minutes ago, Atb210201 said:

 

Yes but I'm saying it has at least thousands of years of history in my country. It has very strong roots and is now part of our very own culture.

So globalism after 1,000 years, you'll support it, cool. How long has "globalism" been going on? Arabia invaded Persia 1,500 years ago, that's "globalism" right? That's why you're sufist, because of the Arabs.

Quote

So if I say a country should not mindlessly pour lots of immigrants into its borders I'm controlling and the ones allowing it and pushing for it to happen are not?

The country itself is not allowed to decide for itself? 

Edited 2 hours ago by Elliott

[Atb210201]

7 minutes ago, Elliott said:

So globalism after 1,000 years, you'll support it, cool. How long has "globalism" been going on? Arabia invaded Persia 1,500 years ago, that's "globalism" right?

That was more imperialism than globalism.

But remember Persia went down a very dark road in all those years.

If you want that to happen to Europe as well sure.

But it's not guaranteed that they'll survive like Persia after that again.

7 minutes ago, Elliott said:

The country itself is not allowed to decide for itself? 

You think it is?

Edited 2 hours ago by Atb210201

[Elliott]

16 minutes ago, Atb210201 said:

Remember Persia went down a very dark road in all those years.

If you want that to happen to Europe as well sure.

But it's not guaranteed that they'll survive like Persia after that again.

Persia was destroyed by the Arabs(imperialism). Europe is unifying with mutual respect(globalism). Even within Europe every country has its own language even.

Quote

You think it is?

The people literally voted for it. Immigration is how countries rule the world, it builds global relationships and trade, 'strength by numbers'.

Edited 1 hour ago by Elliott

[Elliott]

Migration Policy Institute

https://www.migrationpolicy.org

China's Rapid Development Has Transformed Its Migration Trends

Jan 28, 2022 — China has transformed into an emerging destination for migrants, even as it is also a key origin. But legal frameworks for immigrants lag 

 

 

Reuters

https://www.reuters.com

China to expand public service access for migrant workers

May 22, 2026 — Guidelines allow migrant workers access to education, healthcare, and housing. China issued guidelines on Friday to expand coverage of

[Atb210201]

10 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Persia was destroyed by the Arabs(imperialism). Europe is unifying with mutual respect(globalism)

The people literally voted for it. Immigration is how countries rule the world, it builds global relationships and trade.

Alright buddy.

I guess we'll have to just wait and see.

Keep the things I said in mind.

America is gonna become an ally with Russia.

Europe is gonna push for a war between America and Russia.

But in the end Europe is the one that's gonna be shattered into pieces if they don't stop.

Each European country that wakes up sooner the better for Europe as a whole.

Edited 2 hours ago by Atb210201

[Elliott]

@Atb210201

If immigrants moving to another country changes that country, how don't the immigrants change/assimilate? They're the minority.

Quote

The Somali population in France is estimated at approximately 8,000 people, which represents less than 0.01% of the total French population.

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Elliott

[Etherial Cat]

2 minutes ago, LordFall said:

I agree with you that the elites don't play fair and the system has massive issues.

But I say this precisely as a student of history: whenever legitimate frustration turns into mob rioting, the immediate conditions almost always get drastically worse. Burning schools, cars, and local shops doesn't touch the elites, it just screws over regular working people in those neighborhoods and gives the state the perfect excuse to roll out heavier policing and surveillance.

Tearing things down without a solid plan to build something better usually just backfires and makes life harder for normal people.

I do agree with one of your points: the chaos brought about by political turmoil doesn't always lead to favourable outcomes. You can generally expect years of instability while the system recalibrates. But I think France's case might be somewhat different. My guess is that we're moving towards a stronger emphasis on what Spiral Dynamics would call Green values, which makes me hopeful that the transition won't be as dreadful as some of those we've seen in the past. I expect a society that's more socially conscious and aware of its collective footprint.

Now, I'm a native French speaker and pretty familiar with the country's cultural and political landscape. From what I've seen, many of the shops targeted by looters were luxury brands and major French corporations. I'm also aware of smaller independent shops that were broken into, and fundraisers have been set up to help them recover. Targeting small businesses or historical monuments doesn't exactly enjoy public sympathy, whereas I don't think anyone is shedding many tears over the damage to Louis Vuitton or Dior.

There's a pretty significant difference in how people perceive those two things, and I think that distinction matters when trying to understand what's actually happening on the ground.

As for the supposed lack of a plan, French people are highly politicised and organise protests like absolute gremlins. For the better part of a decade, writers, intellectuals and political activists have been publishing books, developing ideas and discussing ways to challenge the existing political order and reclaim control over French institutions. This isn't some spontaneous outburst of anger without any political thinking behind it.

And I think that's also why demonstrations so often concentrate in wealthy, politically significant and highly symbolic areas. There's a political logic behind those choices that goes beyond simply taking to the streets.

You can disagree with their methods or their objectives, of course, but I wouldn't mistake the apparent chaos for a complete absence of organisation or political intent. This is just a highly uninformed assumption likely built of international media coverage, from someone who doesn't experience France on a regular basis first hand,

36 minutes ago, LordFall said:

Real question here, since we are on a self-development forum: out of hundreds of thousands of protesters, what percentage do you think are spending an hour a day reading books, learning skills, or taking free online courses to build genuine leverage in their own lives? Very few.

Developing yourself is hard and takes years, joining a protest and blaming the government and the elites for your problems(even if it's partly justified) is fun and immediate but is fundamentally lazy, bypassing and also mostly doesn't work. It leads to local businesses closing and more global corporations with insurance policies that cover vandalized and looted stores. 

How many people in this past month have lost the work of their lives and have had to permanently close their small business because arrogant and wild youth thought they were hot shit and were teaching a lesson to the system? Apparently it's around 1500 businesses were ransacked, vandalized, or looted over this weekend alone.  

France is a mixed bag when it comes to social and personal development. You'll find a considerable number of people who have reached very advanced levels of development. And culture is obviously a huge thing there, to the point where cultural capital is often used to strong-arm others and assert intellectual superiority. It's almost an ego thing for some people.

So asking whether French people read books is honestly laughable.

But taking personal responsibility isn't something you can simply learn from books. It requires a great deal of personal development, self-awareness and emotional maturity, which I don't think most people have cultivated yet.

Plenty of people believe they're taking responsibility for their lives, when in reality they've merely identified with the concept. They don't necessarily recognise how, on the shadow side, they remain deeply submissive to the established order, often without even being aware of it.

There's a world of difference between intellectually understanding a concept and actually embodying it.

Moreover, there is a strong contradiction in your reasoning here. You can't have it both ways: either you treat the protesters as responsible adults capable of making their own decisions, or you infantilise them by portraying them as ignorant people who don't know what they're doing.

You can't really argue both at once without losing coherence.

[Atb210201]

5 minutes ago, Elliott said:

@Atb210201

If immigrants moving to another country changes that country, how don't the immigrants change/assimilate, they're the minority.

Not all immigrants are friendly.

Some come to destroy.

Some might even be soldiers in immigrant clothing with a concrete plan.

Edited 1 hour ago by Atb210201