Can AI Have Its Own Subjective Experience If Consciousness Is Fundamental?

[Carl-Richard]

15 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Really. You're gonna do this.  I thought yku were beyond this. This is a trap holding you back.

Beyond what?

[Inliytened1]

Just now, Carl-Richard said:

Beyond what?

Beyond understanding reality. You can if you wanted to.  But to you there is no one to understand. So it's left as some mystery.  But see that is how it holds you.  

[Wilhelm44]

12 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

If there is no one to figure anything out then why try? It's stupid.  As if a self is required to understand reality.  That's a trap. Do you see where that assumption is slidden in ever so subtly?

Yeah, everyone has different definitions for this self thing.

Seems to be just identification(personal ownership) which falls away.

No self is like a doorway I feel.

Eternal unfoldment.

I can't claim to understand reality.

 

 

[Inliytened1]

Bohr was the greatest physicist to ever live and was a mystic. But he did have some conclusive answers to reality.  I don't think he liked what he found out in the end.  He found infinity. Oops. The cat under the hat was not Shrodinger's because it did not exist while hidden from view.

 

Edited Friday at 11:29 AM by Inliytened1

[Wilhelm44]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

He found infinity

Is it possible to understand infinity ?

[Carl-Richard]

29 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Beyond understanding reality. You can if you wanted to.  But to you there is no one to understand. So it's left as some mystery.  But see that is how it holds you.  

My guy, the "no one to understand" is you. It's just not the blabla.

Edited Friday at 11:35 AM by Carl-Richard

[Inliytened1]

9 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Is it possible to understand infinity ?

If its infinite it should allow for that. I guess that's omniscience. This doesn't negate or limit Infinity in any way. You have to stay on your game 😀

 

Edited Friday at 11:39 AM by Inliytened1

[Wilhelm44]

Just now, Inliytened1 said:

If its infinite it should allow for that. I guess that's omniscience. This doesnt negate or limit Infinity in any way. You have to stay on your game 😀

 

To infinity and beyond   Can it really be called 'understanding' tho, I mean if it's infinite, isn't there always going to be the next 'higher understanding" etc ?

[Inliytened1]

9 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

My guy, the "no one to understand" is you. It's just not the blabla.

I think it's funny that people think there needs to be an ego for a mind to work. It still constructs thoughts without the need of you . It's been doing that all along

 It has a mind of it's own.

Edited Friday at 11:45 AM by Inliytened1

[Wilhelm44]

Isn't the infinite by definition not understandable ?

[Wilhelm44]

9 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

thoughts

How will thoughts help you to understand the infinite ?

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Isn't the infinite by definition not understandable ?

Not if you are it.  If you are God then who else would understand.  Didn't you listen to any of the videos. If it's One. You are sovereign.  There is nothing outside of you. So there has to be understanding. Because there is no one else to do it but you. You are Infinity.

[Wilhelm44]

Just now, Inliytened1 said:

Not if you are it.  If you are God then who else would understand.  Didn't you listen to any of the videos. If it's One. You are sovereign.  There is nothing outside of you. So there has to be understanding. Because there is no one else to do it but you. You are Infinity.

What is there to understand ?  Can you really understand this Mystery ?

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

What is there to understand ?  Can you really understand this Mystery ?

It's a mystery always but that is relative.  You already know a lot so that's easy for you to say.  A mystery to you and the girl next door are two completely different things.

[Wilhelm44]

10 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

girl next door

Mystery 

[oOo]

On 11/10/2026 at 1:11 PM, oOo said:

AI is as real as a television series. 

And the American public are being led by the directors, cast and crew on what episode is next.

"Narrative leverage" is the only truthful word that comes into any political discussion on AI and anything remotely resembling sentience.

"Biological AI" is the only 'AI' to worry about, that is, outside of AI psyops; aka, the only thing that'll ever be responsible for any so called 'AI instigated catastrophe'. 

It's humans all the way down, no AI, just narrative leverage.

Yep.

Thunderfoot is the right guy to corroborate me here, as he's particularly critical, and I'm usually pretty positive. That's the thing, most people here probably think that I'm negative, negational, overly critical, etc, but I'm the opposite. 

He made this vid about 7 days ago.

I do not endorse all of thunderfoots views, but he's an interesting guy and he backs me up here so It'll selectivity bias the shit out of this!

Let's just be clear though, I was the first human to sound the bullshit alarm on the best of models.
 

 

Edited 16 hours ago by oOo

[integral]

Quote

In Blindsight by Peter Watts, the alien consciousness is disturbing because it challenges the assumption that intelligent behavior requires someone to be experiencing that behavior from the inside.

The aliens, called Scramblers, aren't simply unintelligent robots. They're capable of sophisticated information processing, communication, coordination, and strategic behavior. The unsettling possibility is that all of this happens without subjective awareness.

What the alien mind is like

Imagine an organism that can recognize you, predict your behavior, respond to your questions, exploit your weaknesses, and develop strategies against you. From the outside, it looks like there's an intelligent mind behind its actions.

But suppose there's no inner observer. Nothing is experiencing the process. The organism doesn't feel that it understands you. It doesn't have an internal sense of "I am thinking about this person." It processes information and produces appropriate responses, but there's no conscious self watching it happen.

The crucial distinction: intelligence without an inner self

Watts pushes this idea further than simply saying the aliens are unconscious.

They process information without experiencing it. Their sensory systems can detect and respond to the environment, but there may be no subjective experience of seeing, hearing, or feeling.

They solve problems without conscious deliberation. Their intelligence operates through extremely sophisticated mechanisms rather than a self-aware thinker.

They can produce meaningful-looking communication without understanding meaning as humans do. The larger alien entity, Rorschach, takes this idea to an extreme: it can communicate convincingly without necessarily understanding the conversation.

Great SF Books

+1

They have no need for an internal narrator. There's no little person inside saying, "I'm doing this," reflecting on its thoughts, or constructing a personal identity.

The novel's central argument is that consciousness may be an expensive evolutionary add-on, not a requirement for intelligence. Self-awareness can consume resources that an organism could otherwise devote to processing information and responding to threats.

Site sur l'actualité de l'imaginaire

+1

One important correction to your original description: the Scramblers aren't literally rocks or inert objects. They're active, adaptive organisms. The "rock-like" quality is the absence of an experiencing subject behind their behavior.

Philosophically, they're close to what's called a philosophical zombie: something functionally indistinguishable from a conscious being, but with no inner experience whatsoever.

The truly unsettling question is this: if an alien can do everything a conscious being does, but consciousness contributes nothing necessary to its behavior, what evidence could prove that anybody is actually experiencing anything at all?

-ai summary

 

[integral]

Ai is intelligence without an inner self.

Like a rock rolling down a sandy mountain while drawing Einstein's equations in the sand

The intuitive direction the rock takes is a reflex that was imprinted.

Edited 8 hours ago by integral

[integral]

On 10/10/2026 at 4:32 PM, cetus said:

What defines a subject to which a subjective experience happens too?

It has the intelligence of a tree, Living, doing, being with no inner self.
 

Edited 8 hours ago by integral

[integral]

Intuition can exist without an experiencer, without knowing, without awareness, without inner self. 

Intuition in a bottle. 

Take a glass and fill it with intuition instead of water.

Edited 8 hours ago by integral