Can AI Have Its Own Subjective Experience If Consciousness Is Fundamental?

[Inliytened1]

6 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Ez. Solipsism is bs. You are one and that's all. No talking about others required. Talking about others is a model. Not truth.

Talking at all is a model, no? If you are one then there are no others because other is incorporated into the one.  What's wrong with that? I think What's wrong is it freaks you out.

[Inliytened1]

7 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Ez. Solipsism is bs. You are one and that's all. No talking about others required. Talking about others is a model. Not truth.

@Carl-Richardill say the same thing i said to him. If you agree its consciousness then it's either identical to a night time dream or its a shared dream.  But it wouldn't be easier for God to just dream that it is a shared dream.  You're already dreaming.  Think about this logistically. If you can get to Florida by walking or by car which would you choose. You get their either way.

Edited 8 hours ago by Inliytened1

[Wilhelm44]

12 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

there are no others

Then I don't understand why people have issues with the permanent 'falling away' of sense of separate self

If no others, also no you/me

Edited 8 hours ago by Wilhelm44

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Then I also don't understand why people have issues with the permanent 'falling away' of sense of separate self

If no others, also no you. 

Right 

[Carl-Richard]

9 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Talking at all is a model, no?

Yes. Be very skeptical of talking, if you want to understand the absolute.

 

10 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

If you are one then there are no others because other is incorporated into the one.

"If then" is a model. There is no "if" in truth. It is.

 

13 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

What's wrong with that?

What is (especially) wrong is people who go on talking about two specific and distinct concepts, "lack of experience" and "other", as something that must be seriously entertained and that must somehow occur together, while it's a delusion to think that any of those two things, either in separation or conjuction, have anything to do with truth.

 

12 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I think What's wrong is it freaks you out.

There is one thing that freaks me out and that's truth without any bullshit attached.

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Yes. Be very skeptical of talking, if you want to understand the absolute.

 

"If then" is a model. There is no "if" in truth. It is.

 

What is (especially) wrong is people who go on talking about two specific and distinct concepts, "lack of experience" and "other", as something that must be seriously entertained and that must somehow occur together, while it's a delusion to think that any of those two things, either in separation or conjuction, have anything to do with truth.

 

There is one thing that freaks me out and that's truth without any bullshit attached.

Ok..but if its consciousness then it's a dream.  Do you concur? If you concur..and solipsism is not true..then it must be some sort of shared dream. And if it is some sort of shared dream then there has to be some type of space somewhere for "everyone " to be able to share.  This defeats the whole worldview because that would be an objective, external world.  So if you think it through you must come to this conclusion about idealism. It must be identical to a night time dream.

Edited 8 hours ago by Inliytened1

[Carl-Richard]

4 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Ok..but if its consciousness then it's a dream.

If then.

 

4 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

 Do you concur? If you concur..and solipsism is not true..then it must be some sort of shared dream. And if it is some sort of shared dream then there has to be some type of space somewhere for "everyone " to be able to share.  This defeats the whole worldview because that would be an objective, external worldview.  So if you think it through you must come to thks conclusion about idealism. It must be identical to a night time dream.

Any proposed structure or lack thereof of "the dream" is itself the dream that must be woken up from. That's the absolute perspective. Anything else is a model, for the sake of understanding "things" in the dream or for trying to speak of that which cannot be spoken.

Edited 8 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Mellowmarsh]

13 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Then I don't understand why people have issues with the permanent 'falling away' of sense of separate self

If no others, also no you/me

Breakingthewall appears to have an issue with the permanent ‘falling away’ of the sense of separate self.

He’s just a brick in his own wall that he built himself. He is playing the role of a bricky, breaking down his own wall layer by layer until he becomes redundant, jobless and invisible as though 🧱’s never existed. 😂 

[Inliytened1]

6 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

If then.

 

Any proposed structure or lack thereof of "the dream" is itself the dream that must be woken up from.

That is your structure then, is it not? That there isn't one?   Saying there is no position is a position. This cannot be escaped. 

Edited 8 hours ago by Inliytened1

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

That is your structure then, is it not? That there isn't one? 

 

5 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Any proposed structure or lack thereof of "the dream" is itself the dream that must be woken up from. That's the absolute perspective. Anything else is a model, for the sake of understanding "things" in the dream or for trying to speak of that which cannot be spoken.

 

[Inliytened1]

28 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

 

 

And taking the stance that the Absolute perspective is that it can't be spoken of is a position within the dream just the same as any other position within the dream. Its also neither materialism or idealism or that it is a dream or not a dream.  Or that it is consciousness or not.  That it can't be figured out.  Seems pretty agnostic.  For someone as logical and as deep a thinker as yourself I am shocked that this would trip you up.

Edited 8 hours ago by Inliytened1

[Wilhelm44]

8 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

Breakingthewall appears to have an issue with the permanent ‘falling away’ of the sense of separate self.

He’s just a brick in his own wall that he built himself. He is playing the role of a bricky, breaking down his own wall layer by layer until he becomes redundant, jobless and invisible as though 🧱’s never existed. 😂 

I do think there's something interesting about the way he describes the structure of the self opening up to the limitlessness. Almost a sense of being divinized, I don't know Each to his own I guess

[Mellowmarsh]

16 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Almost a sense of being divinized

Divine eyesd 👀 open the light shining as you. Nice. 

[Leo Gura]

DivinIzed