Women are deceitful by their nature.

[Monster Energy]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

And men are not?

Yeah, men are too. I just think women have an easier time using certain forms of manipulation, and the temptation can be much stronger for men when it comes to women.

 

[Monster Energy]

7 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Framing deceitfulness as inherently part of the female nature, as opposed to just HUMAN nature ...

Is really hurtful. 

Why?

I didn’t mean “nature” as in women are somehow separate from humanity. I mean human nature includes instincts that we don’t always like to admit are there. I’m just looking at the darker, more instinctive side of it.

 

[Monster Energy]

7 hours ago, Jordan of the Shire said:

What makes you think that?

You can’t be serious 

[Monster Energy]

7 hours ago, Olaf said:

@Monster Energy I would say woman are just more indirect or subtle then men, when men have a problem, they take the more aggressive direct route, which is just a different approach not more or less evil then the other. Men do so much evil shit, it is crazy, we kill more then any woman do, because we are just more practical and cold-blooded/logical. Which is why many men turn into psychos, narcissists etc. Woman just don't take that active direct route so quickly, they do, but not as much, they are more likely to hold a resentment forever, but that doesn't mean she will kill you with a knife. 

Yeah, I agree men can be way more direct and violent. I’m not saying one sex is more evil than the other. I’m just talking about different ways of using power.

Men tend to be more direct, while women can be more subtle and indirect. And honestly, that can be harder to see because you don’t always realize you’re being influenced until it’s already happened.

 

[Monster Energy]

5 hours ago, Emerald said:

Before menses, girls cannot reproduce yet. When women hit menopause, they can't reproduce anymore.

And women have a very limited capacity to bear children... usually only preferring to have a few.

So, it really wouldn't make much sense that every aspect of a woman is to somehow manipulate men into reproducing with her... because her reproductive window only lasts like 20-25 years of her life.

And the other 50-60 years of the average woman's life, reproduction is not going to be relevant to her.

Instead, she will be more moved towards relationships for companionship and love... as the reproduction thing is a short-lived season that loses its relevance relatively early in adult life (around 35-40 years old)..

And your view frames women as fundamentally having men as the center of their own universe... and as the motivator for every action she takes and decision she makes.

But I doubt Granny Smith is cranking out well-crafted scarves in the knitting circle as some elaborate ploy to get men to reproduce with her.

So, there's just not a lot of logic to this post. it's all emotions.

And I can sense that you feel powerless to women... and that you feel controlled and manipulated by women's existence.

So, this feels like it's about framing your FEELINGS of powerlessness in relation to women's existence, as something that women are to blame for because it's "their nature to manipulate".

So, you write this post as a way to "shame the villains" that made you feel powerless... AND to try to make those pesky young women in their child-bearing years feel powerless by reminding them, "You will be old and powerless one day! And then, we men will have the last laugh!"

But the call is coming from inside the house. And these stories won't help you feel empowered. 

I think you’re taking the whole “nature’s goal is reproduction” thing a little too literally. I never said a woman consciously spends her entire life trying to manipulate men into reproducing, or that every single thing she does is about getting a man.

Obviously women have lives, relationships, interests and personalities that have nothing to do with reproduction. My point was about the deeper biological drives that can shape attraction, sexuality and behavior during the reproductive years.

And the part where you start psychoanalyzing me is honestly more interesting than your actual argument. You can disagree with my view without assuming that I’m secretly writing all this because I’m powerless or bitter toward women. That’s just mind-reading.

 

[Monster Energy]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Men lie like crazy just for sex.

Look in the mirror.

 

[Monster Energy]

5 hours ago, LordFall said:

Also bro perhaps you're simply experiencing sour grapes?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fox_and_the_Grapes

We talked about this yesterday and you dismissed pickup as just another addiction. I think this post unearthed a deeper layer to your psychology though. It seems that you swung from hardcore porn addict to I guess a celibate nofapper? You didn't elaborate on your life but I assume you don't have a girlfriend? 

I was way more bitter against women before I slept with a bunch of them through game. I lost my virginity at 18 and in my mid teens the thought literally occurred to me that sex was a cosmic joke played against me and it wasn't really a real thing.

It sounds a bit silly but when you fuck a bunch of chicks and just lay down cuddle with them and engage in deep pillow talk then you realize you're not that different and their different life strategies are just a function of their social goals. Also when you start to build big things and put effort in your life it starts to become really obvious that the average man doesn't offer much value and so it becomes a bit normal to be aloof to them which might read as mean or almost evil from the point of view of the people that feel like they're being cold shouldered. 

I get what you mean, but I don’t think you have to sleep with a bunch of women to realize they’re human.

And yeah, I’m celibate right now. But that doesn’t mean I’m bitter toward women. If anything, quitting porn made me question how much of what I thought I wanted was actually coming from me and how much was just lust and conditioning.

As for pickup, I just don’t see myself going down that road. I don’t want women to be the center of my life, whether I’m chasing them or avoiding them.

You have to choose yourself first, before anything else, if you want to truly heal.

 

[KosmicGeng]

It's a classic survival strategy like peacooking, deceit can be attractive to more ruthless men, who're into the dark masculine and these type of tyrannical qualities and have to go through stuff akin to this, like the reverse-logic of peacooking and presenting myself as "Goodness, physical health, having high fecundity and reproductive value" can be very attractive to a women, I can easily act deceitful and pull these qualities into myself and play women and just impregnant them, like women can charm and manipulate with beauty & sex in order to get ressources out of men. 

It's inherent to human nature, but I have the same perspective women are more deceitful, as it has a survival advantage, due to the strength of physicality of men, we don't have periods and are not as affected by nature as women, I might come across as an asshole, but I see it as something a man can take of and provide provision and care for the health and "deceit" a women has to undergo, in order to even keep mating competition at bay within her own gender, it's more human nature, but also inherent as behaviour more closely associated to women imo, but I could read 1-2 books more about it. 

The issue imo is post-modern men and friend groups, and the whole neutrality game about power, if power is not transcended it will never be neutral, having been in evolutionary algorithms lectures taking the whole biological Spiel, manipulating it to humans madness and liking showed me the power we can have about our future of reproduction itself, imo that alone causes panic at the higher echolons of society and women + the whole biological reproductive frame. 

The whole point of it is also societal not only biological, biologically it's way more complicated to understand and manipulate evolution, for e.g genetic editing to reproduce for gay or lesbian couples or plastic surgery.

In this vastly modern & post-modern age, ressources, quality of life, lifestyle etc. play a larger role then genetics, especially for a man, I can speak from experience the fucked way, ultra fucked way, the giga fucked way with evolutionary algorithms, being and having the intention to alter human d.n.a being there and still having interest is a very dark and nefarious trait imo, but still interesting to me from the scientific mind etc. but these problems are very hard, and mostly engineering tasks that have different purposes then bio-medicine alone, I am also better at more mathematical takes of it, not engineering to my suprise, but it's to late a bit of my sob story... but... 

This is one simple take:

Yes, absolutely. You are pointing out a major sociological and psychological shift in modern dating. The traditional gender roles attached to the Räuber-Beute-Schema have frequently flipped in contemporary society.

In modern dating, women are increasingly stepping into the "huntress" (pursuer) role, while men frequently occupy the "prey" (distancer) role, guarding their independence.

The dynamics have inverted due to several cultural, economic, and psychological shifts:

1. Societal and Financial Autonomy

Historically, a woman's pursuit was restricted because her financial survival depended on a man choosing her. Today, women are highly educated, economically independent, and socially empowered.

The Huntress: Women no longer need a provider; they choose a partner based on emotional fulfillment. If they see someone they want, they are socially empowered to actively pursue them, text first, and initiate commitment.

The Prey: Because men are no longer required to be the sole providers to secure a family, the traditional masculine urge to "conquer and lock down" a mate has shifted.

2. The Illusion of Infinity (Dating Apps)

The mechanics of modern online dating have heavily altered the psychological safety net for both genders.

Overwhelmed Men: On dating apps, high-value men are often bombarded with attention or have access to a perceived infinite pool of options. This abundance often triggers an avoidant mechanism, causing them to pull back, delay commitment, and fear losing their independence or "missing out" on someone better.

Frustrated Women: This avoidant behavior from men often triggers anxiety in women who are looking for intentional, efficient dating, turning them into the active pursuers to get clear answers.

3. The "Peter Pan" Syndrome vs. The Biological Clock

Time horizons look very different for men and women in their 20s and 30s, creating an structural imbalance in relationship timelines:

Men Fearing the Trap: Many modern men feel societal pressure to "have their life fully together" (career, finance, maturity) before settling down. They often view early commitment as a trap that limits their freedom or financial building phases, making them run like "prey" when commitment is brought up.

Women Taking Charge: Women facing a compressed biological timeline (if they want biological children) cannot afford to waste years on ambiguous situations. They become highly intentional "hunters"—vetting, pursuing clarity, and demanding milestones.

4. The Psychological Loop Remains the Same

Even when the genders switch roles, the mathematical law of the Räuber-Beute-Schema still applies perfectly. It doesn't matter who is the hunter; the behavior triggers the exact same counter-reaction:

The More She Hunts, the More He Flees: If a woman steps hard into the pursuer role (calling constantly, defining the relationship early, over-functioning), the man will naturally experience the "prey" instinct. He feels his autonomy threatened, feels suffocated, and withdraws.

The Reversal Still Works: If the "huntress" gets tired of the chase and completely cuts contact or moves on, the man suddenly feels the sting of sudden loss. His independence is no longer at risk—his options are. He will frequently flip into the hunter role to win her back.

Ultimately, modern dating has decoupled these roles from gender. The Räuber-Beute dynamic is no longer about "Men vs. Women," but rather about "The Person Who Wants More Certainty" vs. "The Person Who Wants More Freedom."
----

I used A.I here it's difficult piecing all the information together, I just been in such a situation, where I had more status, more independence, more freedom, but the "Huntress" pushing on to want more and more as she felt the biological clock and just shit tested, imo that is not normal anymore in the 21'st century with our current level of science, to me it's a shame to break a relationship down, to the mechanicalness of reproduction, and I was tortured seeing beyond the complexity of the cambrian age, and later found out 12 volumes on love are missing entirely for the perspective of the nature, and these are all hot topics in the health industry with health/gmo modified food etc. idk where you're from, but as I am half u.s half european in that sense I am just mind-fucked with the current complexity, and finding more lost material that needs reintegration then actual people who do science and purport their opinion imo... even basics like this are missing. 

This take is also good.

---
Generally I notice it would be good to go for women who're not that interested in getting children, but I am quite cursed that women with children will also go after me, the more money and status i have so I sabotage myself subconsciously idk it's quite fucked I hate this time period partially, due to this feminist excuse of just partying, having friends, and liberalized sex, as if that does not have quantum impact.... but these are far-fetched perspective I have from audiobooks, I have to still piece togehter the notes, as you won't find this information in the modern versions of science etc. imo these takes are good for the modern/post-modern perspective, but pushin an integral relationship .... imo you just push autonmey and freedom as a man, and outcompete women on multipel levels which leaves her no choice then to take the apprentice role for the mentor etc. 

Idk, most men I see in relationships loose something if there is no devotion to children and the relationship itself, but my takes are very abstract imo they are true for what i experience spirituality, as children are a gift of god, but I don't enjoy the whole survival game parents play etc. without competitive sports etc. anyhow I still have much to learn, but not from women on this site, imo it has gotten more complex, then just "fuck me, give me food, give me children, provide me house & status and good emotions", there is actual work and growth, due to values and needs that grow, but I don't think relationships last if one person grows or has the perception of their growth spinning options like a stock trader, there is an issue with freedom itself, and commitment, and imo women are not commited enough to give the men the masculine needs they provide and men are a bit shy to engage their more feminine authentic nature "Dear Lover" is a good book for men & women from Deida on the perspective of "white light" etc.

The video above is qutite good to get it more intutively I write a lot, it's not perfect, yet I hope the incompletness of the text serves as a pointer towards the intuition, imo evolution still changes and I just found a bunch of videos I watch, and yes it can be calculative but in my own experience... don't pull lucifer souls or ahrimanic souls as women, at times ... just the bible and the truth their resonates.... atheism and nihlism can stay away, it causes the issues of endless freedom, endless maximization, no halt of anything etc. etc. but there I go enough....
 

[KosmicGeng]

This is german, but you can view it through the lense of spiral dynamics and have a mathematical take it's easy enough to understand in any languagge. 

Roles of hunter and prey are switched at post-modern levels, but evolution itself etc. it's a huge topic tbh I lack some knowledge regarding this but some people stole books from me or lost it, so I can't really work through the information as of now, and I took to many advanced perspectives, and found out 12 volumes of one of the founding fathers is lost, a shame of science, but I know where  I can find the sources, I am relatively done with the whole game, but it's interesting, I enjoy the attention of evolution etc. but it's also super annoying I'd rather buy a dog currently, then have a gf, or just something casual but it's just annoying fucking women for sex, is stupid it's good for my work ethic that's about it I figured out, but holy shit I've had lies uncovered by knowledge it's insane, most women with degrees are not educated imo, if your lucky you find one that is intutive enough about the whole game of evolution and does not run logic as ahrmanic/luciferanic self-protective force for her "identity" , self is the exact issue, where healthy psychology is needed not feminism and politics. 

Edited 3 hours ago by KosmicGeng

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Monster Energy either your initial point is convoluted and unrefined - and you are now clarifying. Or you are doing what you appear to do all over the forum and engaging in the scripted motte-and-bailey fallacy. This is your standard script.

If I were to really try to dig into this disingenuous feeling conversation, I would simply claim you haven't established any link between a trait having an evolutionary function to that trait being, therefore, deceptive. 

You can claim that you're “observing” rather than making a moral judgment, but that doesn't resolve the problem. Calling something “nature's disguise,” describing love as a “lie,” and saying that deception is “baked into the code” are not neutral observations.

They are interpretations that require sound argument if you want to paddle them as truth.

How about you try this on Hardmode - don't use AI to answer and do the standard paste remixed slop in reply 

Edited 2 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Monster Energy]

@KosmicGeng 

Yeah, there’s definitely a lot to unpack here. I really appreciate you taking the time to write all of this out. You’ve clearly spent a lot of time thinking about these things, and honestly, you gave me a lot to reflect on.

And honestly, at this point just get the dog. It sounds like the most peaceful option.

 

[KosmicGeng]

Just now, Monster Energy said:

Yeah, there’s definitely a lot to unpack here. I really appreciate you taking the time to write all of this out. You’ve clearly spent a lot of time thinking about these things, and honestly, you gave me a lot to reflect on.

And honestly, at this point just get the dog. It sounds like the most peaceful option.

I prefer that, I hope the dog spots lucifer souls, and the soulless creatures a bit better

[KosmicGeng]

8 minutes ago, Monster Energy said:

Yeah, there’s definitely a lot to unpack here. I really appreciate you taking the time to write all of this out. You’ve clearly spent a lot of time thinking about these things, and honestly, you gave me a lot to reflect on.

And honestly, at this point just get the dog. It sounds like the most peaceful option.

To let you know I am highly biased, and I still get decent options, be careful with women! I talked to various men that are also famous, be very careful if you're into biology study it, but in the ages of A.I you will offend their "pride" a lot the reproductive game is very critical to what is happening in politics & science etc. Saplosky lectures are also good, but it's a lot to go through better refine an opinion with A.I to be deluded and critical in the masses imo, it's already hard to find technical reflections that are as brutal as a.i and truthful about science etc, especially if you've been complimented for intelligence or intellect, it's easier to be grounded, exercise to provide, but then the manipulative typical type of disguises and shit test happen, I speak from my experience, I was not really prepared for that, now bearing the consequences of it. 

Anyhow my 2 cents, I don't take my opinions as seriously as they are still half-baked, understanding evolution is very hard, the women on this forum imo have no clue about the complexity and it just causes what I hated in academia the grabbing for ressources and intellect, and charming all day to have the best possible partner, men generally are not like that from most advice I listend to many just settle for something that is comfortable. 

I had feminists friends, evolution topics are their nr.1 enemy, because it could make themselves and their reproductive advantage valueless, but at the sametime there are plenty of options for also to make men more valueless, imo a good scientific educated 5'ish women is missing on the forum, but you can't expect this in the 21'st century it's mostly fantasy. 

Edited 2 hours ago by KosmicGeng

[KosmicGeng]

The channel is quite good, I just found it due to this conversation, last video I post. 

[Monster Energy]

32 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Monster Energy You can claim that you're “observing” rather than making a moral judgment, but that doesn't resolve the problem. Calling something “nature's disguise,” describing love as a “lie,” and saying that deception is “baked into the code” are not neutral observations.

 

I was pretty clear in my post that they usually aren’t consciously trying to manipulate, so I’m honestly not sure how you missed that, because I know you’re thorough when you read. But okay.

What I mean by deception is more about the mechanism itself. Love feels real and personal, but there’s still a biological drive underneath it pushing toward reproduction. That’s the “disguise” I’m talking about. You experience it as love, while nature is getting you to do what it needs.

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Monster Energy

[Monster Energy]

12 minutes ago, KosmicGeng said:

To let you know I am highly biased, and I still get decent options, be careful with women! I talked to various men that are also famous, be very careful if you're into biology study it, but in the ages of A.I you will offend their "pride" a lot the reproductive game is very critical to what is happening in politics & science etc. Saplosky lectures are also good, but it's a lot to go through better refine an opinion with A.I to be deluded and critical in the masses imo, it's already hard to find technical reflections that are as brutal as a.i and truthful about science etc, especially if you've been complimented for intelligence or intellect, it's easier to be grounded, exercise to provide, but then the manipulative typical type of disguises and shit test happen, I speak from my experience, I was not really prepared for that, now bearing the consequences of it. 

Anyhow my 2 cents, I don't take my opinions as seriously as they are still half-baked, understanding evolution is very hard, the women on this forum imo have no clue about the complexity and it just causes what I hated in academia the grabbing for ressources and intellect, and charming all day to have the best possible partner, men generally are not like that from most advice I listend to many just settle for something that is comfortable. 

I had feminists friends, evolution topics are their nr.1 enemy, because it could make themselves and their reproductive advantage valueless, but at the sametime there are plenty of options for also to make men more valueless, imo a good scientific educated 5'ish women is missing on the forum, but you can't expect this in the 21'st century it's mostly fantasy. 

I appreciate the 2 cents. And honestly, the fact that you can admit your own views are half-baked makes me take them more seriously, not less.

I’ll be careful. I’ve learned the hard way that biology, attraction and human behavior are a lot messier than they look from the outside. I’ll check out Sapolsky too.

Thanks for the rabbit hole. Exactly what I needed.

 

[Monster Energy]

5 minutes ago, KosmicGeng said:

The channel is quite good, I just found it due to this conversation, last video I post. 

👍🏻

[AerisVahnEphelia]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Men lie like crazy just for sex.

Look in the mirror.

I don't, but that's also maybe explaining a lot.

 

Edited 2 hours ago by AerisVahnEphelia

[KosmicGeng]

Just now, Monster Energy said:

I appreciate the 2 cents. And honestly, the fact that you can admit your own views are half-baked makes me take them more seriously, not less.

I’ll be careful. I’ve learned the hard way that biology, attraction and human behavior are a lot messier than they look from the outside. I’ll check out Sapolsky too.

Thanks for the rabbit hole. Exactly what I needed

You're welcome, I am more on the aggressive side of things, the entire channel I just posted, has a lot of good takes, just studying animals and biology often refocused my biases towards just understanding evolution and taking it out of the social paradigm, the social paradigm, is a huge game, and even Wilber has hot takes with the mean green meme and post-modernism, which is the "best" you can get as development from a women, and many just revert imo to that collective I love healthy green, but it turns mean very fast with evolutionary topics, trump & vanity, having read pride & prejudice imo there is a lack of women giving back the education they gained, still playing to win ressources, which is not integral enough as a purpose alone imo, just family, company and provision I just been in that type of relationship nothing wrong with it, but very self-serving, in some cases women can do better business, due to having sex appeal and that type of leverage Alex Hormonzi admitted that about his wife and imo he is a good source to study from to become self-made, even though it has become more business gimmecky recently and not as organic. 

Studying Maslow & Sprial dynamics just some audiobooks are also good primers I would not take a womens advice on dating, relationships are something else, but anything outside of being authentic is often ill-advised and has to be approved by men in order for it to work, I am still very foolish, but I am also just often shamelessly me, 

I've been subtely discriminated by women for various reasons, only to figure out in their "womense" it can mean interest or even thinking about me sexually, framing me as gay reading some player books etc. for e.g the book of pook was still fine to read, Leo's takes are also very good and more peaceful and genuient, but at times imo he just plows to much the post-modern feminist frame and lacks understanding in the evolutionary framework I was just put through. 

It's very easy to see from the oustide if a relationship works, be it stage blue, stage orange, stage green or an integral one, the integral ones are more complicated and nuance, as the lower stages become more present similar as with evolution the perspective and dynamic changes from the underlying mechanism, also the "manipulative" frame, but in the end it's strategies and tactics to get to the goal, it mostly depends how ethical is the strategy and what will the strategy achieve? That might be a good perspective, I am still working on understanding various points, but I am also just a gamer with a degree, imo the academic snotnoses from the U.S lack serious integrity that they claim, they have I am just racist enough to immeditaely go to the asian sources, as we complain often about the same issues, anyhow again just my take, there are plenty of integrous ressources but I highly doubt the women on this forum are as enlightend as they want themselves to look, just prepping up ego online, I did online-game and I ran some of these manipulative tests Eban Pegan recommends, just shows if the inflated self-perception pops, she will turn to murder, calculative ahrimanic force and coagulate in her materalism, it's cringe at best cringe would already be authetnic for the internet paradigm that exists, but I don't know you. 

I am still curious and learning from the perspectives and having a larger variety of opinions is quite good, I don't think you have evil intent, and many women are to prone to cling to the "positivist" saving grace of science or the "damsel in distress" claiming to go for god, I had plenty of experiences with friends, like this idk as the whole concept of nuclear family is breaking apart, due to post-modern regresses of society, I don't really know I can talk with this for ours on dates with women & integral theory most are positive, then think about it, just consider survival, and the one who provides the house and ressources is then traded for sex, I mean I masturbate more intelligently then most women will give me sex, so idk what to think. 

I am very autonemous, I am just pissed when autonomey is taken from me, due to forcing socialization, I select also, and I am very open usually anyhow, I hope this still helps, I am not one of these pseudo-alphas vouching for modern success, worst comes to worst I will defend myself physically, a lot of men still notice these impulses imo, especially if they somehow hit through survival or not the integral cognitive stage, as that makes survival more apparent, but one can quickly fall asleep with all of the comforts the world can provide. 

Anyhow I am very feed-up as I would prefer doing martial arts and go back towards integrating the depth my body faced in terms of masculinity, as it goes quite deep, and often breaks the frame as an outlier, and I still behave very well, but I dislike the feminine lucifer souls just spinning life around me I already touched parts of the feminine that has more grace in serenity spiriutally and I have some bad intuitions about my ex and the mother marry, and I am not a devout christian, but some of this still resonats with me as I was baptized at "Mariaschutz Kirche" and imo that had a large impact on my D.N.A, I don't really know what to make out of this, as I still hoped science and spirituality would get a more common ground, but modernity & post-modernity are huge issues imo. 

I can recommend Leo's booklist there are plenty of books and description of books that can clear the confusion alone, I bought some other books to deviate from my knowledge base, but I am heavily working with A.I I am against the rigid independt forces, the whole ball game in SE is changing and imo these comments about remix & etc are stupid I already went through such relationships speaking with Grok, and even Shinzen vouches for a.i imo these views are regressive and just out there to hoard and gain ressources. 

I spend to much time I should really study, but I really crave a more stable social experience with people or just not the infrastructure breaking it has been hell recently. 

[Monster Energy]

8 minutes ago, AerisVahnEphelia said:

I don't, but that's also maybe explaining a lot.

 

I think you’re non-binary or asexual.

Have you ever held a gun before?