Why do liberals support Islam?

[zazen]

 

Common denominator: human..and that reality is more complex than “religion did it”

The historical norm within Muslim lands was that they were more tolerant of vices etc (they just weren’t central to society or viewed as liberation).

The recent aberration of a more intolerant version of Islam has multiple factors (puritanism, colonialism, anti-imperialism , instability etc)

Puritan reformists (Wahhabism, Iranian revolution) came about the same time modern states formed and could disseminate that version of Islam rather than the one practiced before.

The environment that selected for those versions of Islam is changing, so the religious expression is changing with it

Ironically the Saudi fuelled petro-dollars that heavily pushed a rigid Islamic strand (naturally having the most influence being the spiritual centre + oil money) is now reigning it in

[enchanted]

I know this a straw man argument but it's still funny. (I vote DSA btw and I don't support MAGA. I do like poking fun at my own side sometimes though).

[Monster Energy]

17 hours ago, enchanted said:

I know this a straw man argument but it's still funny. (I vote DSA btw and I don't support MAGA. I do like poking fun at my own side sometimes though).

 

[Carl-Richard]

On 6.9.2026 at 9:20 AM, zazen said:

Common denominator: human..and that reality is more complex than “religion did it”

There is this general tendency (probably born out of the New Atheist movement) to think of religion as fundamentally low IQ, low education, regressive, etc.

You see even Leo engage in this with his "Christians are stupid", "New Agers are stupid" and "fake spirituality" rhetoric. Meanwhile, the reality is that low IQ is low IQ, low education is low education, regressive is regressive, and that certain forms of religion express these things, just like simply certain forms of human express these things.

And of course the irony is that Leo and essentially everyone on here talking about God, consciousness, Love, Truth, etc. are religious. It's like they forget Spiral Dynamics is a thing, that pre-trans fallacy is a thing, and that religion is not intrinsically tied to just one portion of those stages or things. There are self-described Christians that dwarf every person on this forum in IQ and cognitive sophistication, probably same for Muslims.

This forum has ironically a form of dogmatic New Age supremacy and prejudice, that all other forms of religion are intrinsically dumb and that their religiosity is high IQ, meanwhile you get literal racists typing out slogans like "muslims are dangerous".

Edited 8 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Monster Energy]

23 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

There is this general tendency (probably born out of the New Atheist movement) to think of religion as fundamentally low IQ, low education, regressive, etc.

You see even Leo engage in this with his "Christians are stupid", "New Agers are stupid" and "fake spirituality" rhetoric. Meanwhile, the reality is that low IQ is low IQ, low education is low education, regressive is regressive, and that certain forms of religion express these things, just like simply certain forms of human express these things.

And of course the irony is that Leo and essentially everyone on here talking about God, consciousness, Love, Truth, etc. are religious. It's like they forget Spiral Dynamics is a thing, that pre-trans fallacy is a thing, and that religion is not intrinsically tied to just one portion of those stages or things. There are self-described Christians that dwarf every person on this forum in IQ and cognitive sophistication, probably same for Muslims.

This forum has ironically a form of dogmatic New Age supremacy and prejudice, that all other forms of religion are intrinsically dumb and that their religiosity is high IQ, meanwhile you get literal racists typing out slogans like "muslims are dangerous".

You come from one of the most secular and atheist countries in the world, and yet you have the nerve to say that these people aren’t stupid. Of course, religious people can be good at cleaning the house, doing the dishes, singing, or playing the piano. But that’s not the point. They lack good understanding about reality. 

You unconsciously mock Muslim women when you say that Muslims are not dangerous.

 

Edited 8 hours ago by Monster Energy

[Monster Energy]

It’s only a matter of time before you get banned.

 

[Carl-Richard]

6 hours ago, Monster Energy said:

You come from one of the most secular and atheist countries in the world, and yet you have the nerve to say that these people aren’t stupid. Of course, religious people can be good at cleaning the house, doing the dishes, singing, or playing the piano. But that’s not the point. They lack good understanding about reality.

You can try to wipe the floor with say a Rupert Sheldrake or David Bentley Hart, see how that goes.

 

6 hours ago, Monster Energy said:

You unconsciously mock Muslim women when you say that Muslims are not dangerous.

You consciously mock Muslim women when you say that Muslims are dangerous.

 

6 hours ago, Monster Energy said:

It’s only a matter of time before you get banned.

I don't know, there is a trend that people with racist/bigoted tendencies and high amounts of warning points are more likely to get banned than the opposite.

Edited 2 hours ago by Carl-Richard