Enlightenment when there is a guru and there is suffering

[Someone here]

There is a teaching in the spiritual traditions that enlightenment cannot be reached merely through books, ideas, or intellectual understanding. The path demands something deeper: the guidance of one who has already walked through the darkness and emerged on the other side ,aka a guru or enlightened master.

The journey towards ACTUAL enlightenment begins when we face suffering that we cannot escape. This deep suffering strips away the identities and attachments we have built around ourselves until we are left standing before life with nothing to hide behind.

And then, when the student is truly ready, the teacher appears.

The guru does not necessarily come to save the student from suffering. Rather, the guru helps the student see through it. They point beyond the pain, beyond the story, beyond the identity that has been constructed around it. They guide the student toward the place where suffering turns into awakening through surrendering the ego.

It is not about seeking enlightenment as an escape from life. It is about meeting life completely:with its beauty, its terror, its grief, its hunger, its uncertainty and allowing every experience to burn away what is false.

When the student has reached the place where they are no longer merely looking for answers, but are truly willing to see, the teacher appears.

 

Without DEEP suffering, both physical and psychological, there is no possibility of even taking the spiritual path seriously, let alone becoming truly enlightened and realized.

If seeking enlightenment is treated as philosophical entertainment, or merely contemplating cool ideas about existence, you will never become actually enlightened. There has to be a genuine hunger for truth, or profound suffering that forces us to seek beyond our mortal body and this world.

 

Edited 9 hours ago by Someone here

[Jirh]

Agreed 👍🏻 💯

[Mellowmarsh]

Who hasn’t suffered in life?

Hands up those who have never suffered here?

 

 

[Jirh]

As I think about this, who was the first enlightened teacher? Who taught him/her?

[Breakingthewall]

Good reflection. I agree; few people will seek transcendence of the ego unless forced to, but in theory, it's not always like that.

For example, Buddha was a man who had everything: his life was joyful and vibrant, surrounded by people who loved him, happily married with a son. But intellectually, he realized the trap of the ego, and he couldn't bear to live in it any longer, so he abandoned everything to seek liberation.

In real life, I'd say absolutely no one would do that, and Buddha is certainly a legend, but even so, he is Buddha.

[Mellowmarsh]

20 minutes ago, Jirh said:

As I think about this, who was the first enlightened teacher? Who taught him/her?

The “who” in question here, is the “thought” 

Think on that. 

[Sugarcoat]

Your teacher told you that?

Edited 4 hours ago by Sugarcoat

[kavaris]

My teacher told me ill never be enlightened w/ the kind of disease i have.

Put your hands up in the air if yous can relate 🙌

[Mellowmarsh]

Yeah, it super sick. 

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, Jirh said:

As I think about this, who was the first enlightened teacher? Who taught him/her?

Since the dawn of humanity, there have been shamans, people who claim to be in contact with the source of creation. The term "enlightened" varies greatly depending on the tradition, but it always has commonalities: equanimity, detachment from worldly matters and power struggles, and often celibacy.... In other words, someone who is more there than here.

Before Buddha, there were the Advaita Vedantas who went alone into the forest in acts of extreme ascetic renunciation. Such people also existed in ancient Greece, and I suppose in all cultures. But the definition of "enlightened" is still undefined, and I suppose it never will be

[Sugarcoat]

4 hours ago, Jirh said:

As I think about this, who was the first enlightened teacher? Who taught him/her?

Nobody 😂😂

[Sugarcoat]

6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

But the definition of "enlightened" is still undefined, and I suppose it never will be

Its like, I get it, in that "state" (not even allowed to call it that) maybe no concept means anything, but can they at least provide for the rest of us something to grasp, more gate kept than Kriya yoga

[Breakingthewall]

8 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Its like, I get it, in that "state" (not even allowed to call it that) maybe no concept means anything, but can they at least provide for the rest of us something to grasp, more gate kept than Kriya yoga

Id say that enlightenment is a state of the human mind in which the barriers have dissolved and there is no absolute difference between reality and mind, object and subject; then the mind perceives itself as total, unlimited.

Not to be confused with solipsism, it doesn't mean that you are creating the others, just that the absolute limits have fallen, the relative limits always exist. You could think, well, I already know that the reality and me are one, can't be otherwise. Yes ok, but the difference is about perceiving it by default without any closure. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Breakingthewall

[Jirh]

@Breakingthewall

Still, the question is: Who taught them?

Who taught anyone anything?!

Who taught a tiger how to hunt?

Edited 1 hour ago by Jirh

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Jirh said:

@Breakingthewall

Still, the question is: Who taught them?

Who taught anyone anything?!

Who taught a tiger how to hunt?

You don't need to be taught, just breaking your inner limits. It's the same for anyone in any time. 

A tiger is different, it's a natural hunter taught by millions of years of evolution.

[Jirh]

Just now, Breakingthewall said:

You don't need to be taught, just breaking your inner limits. It's the same for anyone in any time. 

That makes some sense. But still.

It's kinda like the infinitely regressive question: Who created God?

But this time it's more about humans. Who created human knowledge?

[Mellowmarsh]

 

“When the mind is at peace, the world too is at peace. Nothing real, nothing absent. Not holding on to reality, not getting stuck in the void, you are neither holy or wise, just an ordinary fellow enjoying the wonders of life.” 
 

Balance is the centre of truth.