indirect communication

[Olaf]

Coming from the Netherlands, we value direct communication. We are famous for saying things as they are. Whether it is ugly, beautiful, or anything in between, we don't care if we come across as rude, as long as we are honest. Yet I have found this approach to be quite ineffective and, honestly, a bad way to communicate. Imagine if you said everything directly. Instead of hopping on a sales call for an hour or so, you would just have someone tell you in the first minute, "This is the product, this is how much it costs, are you in or not?" It would be an awful way to conduct a sales call. Even calling it a sales call would be too direct; you call it a discovery call, a free coaching session, or whatever.

The opposite of the Dutch, who are very direct, are the Brazilians, who are about as indirect as can be. I think that is why many people find them attractive, because they are flowy, go with the flow, and don't say, "BUY THIS NOW." They slowly get to the point. The only problem with being indirect is if you never get to the point. Imagine a sales call that lasted 15 hours before you ever offered your product. That wouldn't be good either, so I guess there is a balance. At some point, you need to get to the point. Another thing I was thinking about was dogs, lol. They don't just hump each other. They sniff, they play, they become friends, and the male dog might try to show off his dominance by barking or whatever. After enough sniffing each other and playing, they go for it.

Being social is all about being indirect, in my opinion. The idea that being social is therefore dishonest could also be a question to be raised, because you are basically delaying the actual intention behind why you started the conversation. Now, of course, if you have no agenda in the first place, then it is honest because you are not trying to lead it anywhere. But if you have some form of agenda, which I think every sales call and every conversation with a beautiful girl kind of has, then the more indirect you are, the more, in that sense, you are being dishonest. Yet if you are very direct, this doesn't work well, isn't a good approach, and isn't very social.

These are just some thoughts I had today. I thought sharing them would be interesting, and I'd also like to hear what you guys think.

[Miguel1]

If men were fully direct, they would walk up to a random girl and ask straight for sex. Instead they have to play games for hours to get some poon.

Game was developed precisely because that direct and honest communication doesn’t work. Girls (a lot of them) love to chase, they want to feel like sex is a win for them, understandably. Granted, many girls also are seriously looking for relationships and doesn’t want to entertain hook ups.

On top of that, there’s a million social games and rules you gotta play because of social programming, ego, traumas, and cultural unconsciousness — otherwise you are seen as a weirdo or crazy.

We all know this, when we spend time with our families.

Socializing is monkey games, and dishonest. We are hundreds of years away from honest socializing.

Edited Saturday at 01:39 PM by Miguel1

[Butters]

8 hours ago, Miguel1 said:

Instead they have to play games for hours to get some poon.

Not my experience. My quickest win came at a club where I grabbed a girls hand, we made out and then she asked your place or mine. Was like 5 minutes tops. 

Other times it was more like tinder dates but I never saw that as playing games for hours, just a date. 

What you're describing is inauthentic game, I don't think it should feel like a struggle. But tbh I haven't done a lot of pickup. 

Edited Saturday at 09:50 PM by Butters

[Miguel1]

@Butters You contradict yourself.

Of course there are exceptions, especially when it comes to drunk horny girls at the end of the night.

[Olaf]

@Butters Probably you were having fun and in flow state, but just cause that happend one time that quick, doesn't mean it happens all the time and everywhere. Don't forget that a club is very different then during the day where people are sober and make more rational decisions than getting carried away in the moment. Also you said it happend one time, does it happen every night? Don't think so.

[Zenterus]

I live in the Netherlands too, broski

[Olaf]

@Zenterus small world

[Butters]

@Olaf yes what you say is correct but my point was: I can't remember going on dates to 'please her' only to want to extract something from her in exchange (sex). That seems dishonest. My experience has been girls are hornier than guys but they won't outright ask cuz they can't handle rejection. 

[Olaf]

@Butters and even if that is the case, most girls will need more than just a 1 min conversation. Try to do the same thing 11 in the morning next to a bus stop. Also they won't outright ask, because they are woman, it is not normal for a woman to ask you to have sex with her, that is why indirectly talking exists, both the girl and guy might talk indirectly, she might try to hint something to him and he is hinting to her, this is being social instead of being autistic and  directly trying to sleep with a girl. 

[Butters]

3 hours ago, Olaf said:

@Butters and even if that is the case, most girls will need more than just a 1 min conversation. Try to do the same thing 11 in the morning next to a bus stop. Also they won't outright ask, because they are woman, it is not normal for a woman to ask you to have sex with her, that is why indirectly talking exists, both the girl and guy might talk indirectly, she might try to hint something to him and he is hinting to her, this is being social instead of being autistic and  directly trying to sleep with a girl. 

@Olaf my experience has literally been the opposite. I feel like girls wanted to have sex or make out where I didn't want to way more often than the reverse. 

[Joshe]

It’s not just countries with this distinction, but individuals as well. It’s a common source of communication problems. I’ve heard it framed as “ask culture” vs “guess culture”.

People of guess culture will present an indirect statement or a question and expect you to discern what they want from you. They do this because it’s how they themselves prefer to be addressed. They don’t want you being so direct, which is why they aren’t themselves. Seems like a threat minimization strategy. 

Guess culture might fish for an invite to your party whereas ask culture will just ask you outright.

[Butters]

I've had it many times a girl and I would make strong eye contact in public and immediately she'd look at my dick, especially with sweatpants. I have a small penis but you can't see that, or they don't care. That's about as direct as it gets with a stranger lol. 

I never approached any of those cause I was too shy, like now all of a sudden I was missing a connection first. But I would bet those would be extremely quick daytime lays, something some people in this thread seem to not believe exist. 

Someone else posted about sweatpants here too a while back. Some women will literally try to grab your thing by walking really close and letting their hands lose in that direction. I met a guy once who wore a kilt to the pub and he was basically sexually molested by girls all night lol. If you wanna get laid quick, you definitely can. 

Yes there are cultural differences, this was all in the Netherlands which is both a direct country and a very equal country when it comes to men and women, hence their incentive to be so direct about sex. 

Edited Sunday at 08:20 PM by Butters

[Olaf]

@Butters I am from the Netherlands myself, I don´t know where you are living, but this isn´t an everyday thing here. You are talking crap or you just have your looks that hook woman, don´t forget the difference between a good looking guy and an average guy, you can´t say the same for someone average-looking.