Matrix and freedom

[VeganAwake]

The experience that you are the body is an illusion.

There are bodies, but they are empty of a you/me. Totally empty, no spirit, no soul, no being, no you. Just like deer and rabbits......no difference.

When that particular body dies, the self illusion that never shuts up about "being" will be gone also. It's actually not there now. There won't even be the slightest awareness of anything or anyone ever existing/"being".... zip zilch nada. Total lights out infinitely.

And in that sense, nothing matters whatsoever in any way shape or form. Not even a little tinny bit. 

No meaning, no purpose, no value, no being, no you, no me, no other.

Infinity means absolutely nothing,  because there's nobody actually experiencing it.

No amount of knowledge will change this outcome which is already the case.

Nothing achieved or known in this apparent lifetime, matters in any way at all.

You could cure all forms of cancer, figure out a solution to world hunger, and become the richest spiritual gura in the world......and it wouldn't matter even in the slightest way possible.

Every single living organism within this infinite reality will eventually die, never to return. 

That's the biggest problem for the self illusion. 

Nevertheless it's inevitable reality.

Unconditional freedom, but for nobody.

[Breakingthewall]

10 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

Every single living organism within this infinite reality will eventually die, never to return.

Every organism, living or non-living, is an expression of the total being. It seems you can't escape a relative and local view of reality.

When you say that nothing matters, that's a judgment of your actual human mind, which decides that since you're going to die, nothing matters. You could equally say that everything matters because everything is a manifestation of being in its unlimited becoming.

You know many things from your local perspective, but you can't open yourself to the absolute; therefore, you try to ridicule with nihilism any statement that points in the direction of openness to absolute being without any effort of understanding. 

Well, if that satisfies you, fine, but the reality is that as a human being, you can open yourself to your total nature right now.

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

 but the reality is that as a human being, you can open yourself to your total nature right now.

How does that look like In practice?

[Mellowmarsh]

19 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Every organism, living or non-living, is an expression of the total being. It seems you can't escape a relative and local view of reality.

When you say that nothing matters, that's a judgment of your actual human mind, which decides that since you're going to die, nothing matters. You could equally say that everything matters because everything is a manifestation of being in its unlimited becoming.

You know many things from your local perspective, but you can't open yourself to the absolute; therefore, you try to ridicule with nihilism any statement that points in the direction of openness to absolute being without any effort of understanding. 

Well, if that satisfies you, fine, but the reality is that as a human being, you can open yourself to your total nature right now.

Humans know nothing about the absolute. The only thing humans know is that they will die. Everything else is pure speculative fiction constructed artificially via their made up linguistics.

[Sugarcoat]

58 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Well, if that satisfies you, fine, but the reality is that as a human being, you can open yourself to your total nature right now.

Thats like David Goggins saying anyone can be like him if they just “toughen up a little”

Edited 13 hours ago by Sugarcoat

[Sugarcoat]

11 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

Every single living organism within this infinite reality will eventually die, never to return. 

So not infinite torture reincarnations??? That’s the best news ever. I hope you’re right (I’m convinced you’re not but I wish). 

[VeganAwake]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

How does that look like In practice?

It's a delusional spiritual fantasy or egoic imagination. 

Delusion is always an addition of something. A religion/belief/concept/egoic imagination/spiritual ego 

Awakening is a subtraction or unknowing. All these ridiculous human beliefs stemming from fear, are recognized as total bs. 

When all the conditioned nonsense is dropped(matrix), only reality remains! 

[VeganAwake]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

It seems you can't escape a relative and local view of reality.

There's nobody stuck though. The self illusion is the stickiness/prison 

Assuming there is a limited local self that is stuck in its belief system, is exactly what's being pointed out as illusory.

Awakening is the end of an apparent someone believing in a relative or absolute reality. 

The human bodies have senses and can also develop spiritually conditioned imaginations such as that body over there.

Identification as that body/spirituality conditioned imagination, is the cause of the delusion!

It may continue chasing delusional concepts until body death.

[Someone here]

43 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

It's a delusional spiritual fantasy or egoic imagination. 

Not everything you think is delusional is necessarily delusional. For him , he sees your stance as the delusional one .

45 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Delusion is always an addition of something. religion/belief/concept/egoic imagination/spiritual ego.

 Some Delusions might not be bad.  Religions and beliefs help you make sense of the world. Through myths and bedtime stories.Yes, they might be factually incorrect but their function isn’t to tell you what is actually true (that’s the function of empirical science). Rather ,their function is to soothe your spiritual and emotional needs . Because a human being is not just a physical body . Don’t deny emotions and spiritual and  psychological needs . 

50 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Awakening is a subtraction or unknowing. All these ridiculous human beliefs stemming from fear, are recognized as total bs. 

but you need to not know in order to know . And  then you need to know to be able to un-know .

a child is born knowing nothing . Then he learns relative knowledge. Then ,perhaps lives until he’s 90 years old and get Alzheimer and forgets everything he knew .  Then he dies . 
we are born knowing nothing . We die knowing nothing.

56 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

When all the conditioned nonsense is dropped(matrix), only reality remains! 

What is “reality “ in your view ? 

[VeganAwake]

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

(I’m convinced you’re not but I wish). 

Look closely for that which is convinced. 

Who or what is convinced?

What is "I’m"?

What does it consist of?

[VeganAwake]

12 minutes ago, Someone here said:

What is “reality “ in your view ? 

Everything physically appearing is reality. That doesn't change at all, no matter what.

THIS!!!!

The only thing completely unreal is the "separate sense of self" and its conditioned imagination. 

The conditioned mind/sense of self/self illusion identifies and seemingly lives through the matrix of mind or filtered reality. 

It also overlays reality with a sense of Meaning, Purpose and Value and operates from that unsatisfied position of constant lack. It's never satisfied. It seeks endlessly for a better experience in the future. 

Yes, it's also considered a survival strategy, but nonetheless, it causes an incredible amount of suffering which is mostly unnoticed until it stops.

Like being habitually unsatisfied for 25 years........it's not even recognized as an issue for most.

[Someone here]

13 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Everything physically appearing is reality. That doesn't change at all, no matter what.

THIS!!!!

The only thing completely unreal is the "separate sense of self" and its conditioned imagination. 

The conditioned mind/sense of self/self illusion identifies and seemingly lives through the matrix of mind or filtered reality. 

It also overlays reality with a sense of Meaning, Purpose and Value and operates from that unsatisfied position of constant lack. It's never satisfied. It seeks endlessly for a better experience in the future. 

Yes, it's also considered a survival strategy, but nonetheless, it causes an incredible amount of suffering which is mostly unnoticed until it stops.

Like being habitually unsatisfied for 25 years........it's not even recognized as an issue for most.

Sure, I’ve heard you say that a million times. Not that I disagree with much of what’s being said ,but I find it unfruitful to waste my effort trying to change or challenge some of what you say.  You’re well seated in your own ways and it’s clear there is not the slightest desire to accept challenging your beliefs.

Also, you didn’t engage with my other points which I made and which I think are crucial to understand as well, apart from the question you quoted.
but hey whatever makes you happy , I guess .

[VeganAwake]

5 hours ago, Someone here said:

Also, you didn’t engage with my other points which I made and which I think are crucial to understand as well, apart from the question you quoted.

I have 3 boys bro, 9, 12 and 14 and a girlfriend and 4 of my family members were here at my house visiting this week. I understand why you think thoughts and apparent answers are crucial.

I mostly just respond to what seems to spark interest and resonates here.

[Someone here]

50 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

I have 3 boys bro, 9, 12 and 14 and a girlfriend and 4 of my family members were here at my house visiting this week. I understand why you think thoughts and apparent answers are crucial.

What does any of that have to do with the discussion?

I’m talking to a stranger on the internet about deep philosophical questions. I’m not interested in your personal life..your biography or whatever else you think is relevant. I’m interested in the discussion we’re actually having. If you’re busy with the three boy's birthday party then don’t post today .

The bolded part is where you seem to completely miss the point: “thoughts and apparent answers “matter. They matter because we are trying to investigate something. If your response to every attempt at investigation is “there is no self..nothing is happening.. bla bla bla” then congratulations ..you’ve successfully turned a potentially interesting philosophical discussion between two human beings into a discussion between a human and a robot.

You’re one of the most closed-minded people I’ve encountered in this community. Not because you hold a particular position..but because you seem almost incapable of stepping outside that position to actually examine anything else.

Everything gets filtered through the same Jim Newman-style template. Ask a question? “There is no one asking.” Raise a possibility? “There is no one to understand it.” Explore an implication? “Bla bla bla.” Challenge the premise? Repeat the premise even louder.

And the funniest part is that you seem genuinely afraid of engaging with these questions in an open-minded way. What exactly are you worried about?  If the position is genuinely beyond question..then questioning it should cause absolutely no threat to it. But apparently even entertaining another perspective is dangerous territory for you .

I understand the  whole neo advaitan uncompromising nonduality position. I really do. The message is essentially that there is no separate self..nothing to attain..nothing to become and ultimately no meaningful message being delivered. Fine. That’s internally coherent on its own terms. And for some people..that radical perspective may be  liberating or point toward a profound inner peace. And it is like that for me as well . Pretty interesting stuff .

But here’s the part you seem unable or unwillingto grasp ..That doesn’t make it the only legitimate way of investigating reality.

Some people are interested in going further into questions about consciousness ..subjectivity..perception.existence..thought experience.. how to integrate modern science with traditional religion and with esoteric spirituality.. because we need the three in our lives not just one . We don’t live on bread alone . We are not just some biological animals who want to eat drink piss shit fuck reproduce shower sleep and die .

And yes I’m aware of the standard disclaimer: the message is meaningless..there are no promises,..there is nothing to understandetc. Wonderful. Then let’s stop pretending that endlessly repeating those disclaimers constitutes philosophical investigation.

If you genuinely believe the entire thing is beyond concepts and cannot be meaningfully discussed then by all means stop discussing it. But you see you keep logging in into the forum and you keep discussing. if you’re going to participate in a philosophical discussion ..at least participate in the discussion. You don’t have to agree with me. You just have to demonstrate that you’re capable of thinking beyond the boundaries of the conclusion you’ve already decided is correct.Because “bla bla bla no self” isn’t an argument. It’s just autism .

 

[VeganAwake]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

What does any of that have to do with the discussion?

I’m talking to a stranger on the internet about deep philosophical questions. I’m not interested in your personal life..your biography or whatever else you think is relevant. I’m interested in the discussion we’re actually having. If you’re busy with the three boy's birthday party then don’t post today .

The bolded part is where you seem to completely miss the point: “thoughts and apparent answers “matter. They matter because we are trying to investigate something. If your response to every attempt at investigation is “there is no self..nothing is happening.. bla bla bla” then congratulations ..you’ve successfully turned a potentially interesting philosophical discussion between two human beings into a discussion between a human and a robot.

You’re one of the most closed-minded people I’ve encountered in this community. Not because you hold a particular position..but because you seem almost incapable of stepping outside that position to actually examine anything else.

Everything gets filtered through the same Jim Newman-style template. Ask a question? “There is no one asking.” Raise a possibility? “There is no one to understand it.” Explore an implication? “Bla bla bla.” Challenge the premise? Repeat the premise even louder.

And the funniest part is that you seem genuinely afraid of engaging with these questions in an open-minded way. What exactly are you worried about?  If the position is genuinely beyond question..then questioning it should cause absolutely no threat to it. But apparently even entertaining another perspective is dangerous territory for you .

I understand the  whole neo advaitan uncompromising nonduality position. I really do. The message is essentially that there is no separate self..nothing to attain..nothing to become and ultimately no meaningful message being delivered. Fine. That’s internally coherent on its own terms. And for some people..that radical perspective may be  liberating or point toward a profound inner peace. And it is like that for me as well . Pretty interesting stuff .

But here’s the part you seem unable or unwillingto grasp ..That doesn’t make it the only legitimate way of investigating reality.

Some people are interested in going further into questions about consciousness ..subjectivity..perception.existence..thought experience.. how to integrate modern science with traditional religion and with esoteric spirituality.. because we need the three in our lives not just one . We don’t live on bread alone . We are not just some biological animals who want to eat drink piss shit fuck reproduce shower sleep and die .

And yes I’m aware of the standard disclaimer: the message is meaningless..there are no promises,..there is nothing to understandetc. Wonderful. Then let’s stop pretending that endlessly repeating those disclaimers constitutes philosophical investigation.

If you genuinely believe the entire thing is beyond concepts and cannot be meaningfully discussed then by all means stop discussing it. But you see you keep logging in into the forum and you keep discussing. if you’re going to participate in a philosophical discussion ..at least participate in the discussion. You don’t have to agree with me. You just have to demonstrate that you’re capable of thinking beyond the boundaries of the conclusion you’ve already decided is correct.Because “bla bla bla no self” isn’t an argument. It’s just autism .

 

You know if you don't like the answers or resonate with the communication, you don't need to respond. 

Just an idea 🤷‍♂️

[Someone here]

8 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

You know if you don't like the answers or resonate with the communication, you don't need to respond. 

Just an idea 🤷‍♂️

I don’t “ need “ to respond but I can respond if I want to. But more importantly because anyone who’s into Actualized org is intelligent . And hopefully I’m talking with an intelligent person who’s capable of juggling different perspectives simultaneously instead of repeating the same bullshit for 1000 years .