The Michael Sartain podcast

[LordFall]

Highly recommend watching this podcast to learn concepts that aren't known widely in the dating industry, you will learn more watching this than from Mark Manson or other random red pill influencers. What Sartain teaches on game and social circle is world class, it's how I throw a lot of my events alongside what his old business partner Luke teaches. Sartain has learned all the lessons from RSD and refined it into an impressive evolution of game and business. 

Some good highlights from his game philosophy:

- Female friends will help you get laid and also protect you from toxic men in your life as they will tell you if they talk shit behind your back.

- You should avoid overtly flirting with women in your social circle besides fun teasing and flirting as it's a reaping too soon type of thing and it'll damage the integrity of it and also prevent you from greater opportunities in the future. 

- Using your girlfriend for threesomes is extremely effective and they talk about how to do it without being creepy or boring. 

A few other good episodes worth watching are his pod with Ryan Pownall, Hoe Math, Casey Zander, Orion Taraban and his own personal inspiration Dr David Buss

Edited 4 hours ago by LordFall

[Raze]

Sartain is biased and he never learned from RSD. 

He markets himself as anti cold approach, but then teaches it in his program.

He says you shouldn’t show intent, most guys fail because they don’t show intent.

His preselection understanding isn’t good either, just posting awkward photos of yourself on Instagram surrounded by women who clearly don’t like you isn’t good preselection.

 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Raze

[LordFall]

5 minutes ago, Raze said:

Sartain is biased and he never learned from RSD. 

 

In what way is he biased? Sartain has been affiliated with RSD since 2012 and possibly before that when he was a club promoter in Vegas and helped them get access to clubs there for their bootcamps. 

Edited 3 hours ago by LordFall

[Raze]

6 minutes ago, LordFall said:

In what way is he biased? Sartain has been affiliated with RSD since 2012 and possibly before that when he was a club promoter in Vegas and helped them get access to clubs there for their bootcamps. 

I edited my comment.

He worked with them but never learned from them. He’s biased because he rejects inner game, cold approach, direct game, and other forms of social circle. He expects people to dm thousands of women to host a party. That is an unwieldy form of social circle. And social circle won’t work unless you are already moderately proficient with game and social skills.

Edited 3 hours ago by Raze

[LordFall]

Yes he teaches a form of advanced game that includes cold approach as a means of fueling your circle but not as a core philosophy like some pickup teachers have. 

5 minutes ago, Raze said:

I edited my comment.

He worked with them but never learned from them. He’s biased because he rejects inner game, cold approach, direct game, and other forms of social circle. He expects people to dm thousands of women to host a party. 

Not thousands you can usually get away with dming a couple hundred, it's quite easy and you get to meet the hottest women in your city on your terms this way. I've been consistently using this method to host my own events for the past few years.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cq3Ys7vvAAa/

I think it's helpful to have a base of cold approach before you get into social circle game so you understand escalation otherwise you'll just host events and never get laid but once you do this is the way to 5x the caliber of the women you have access to. 

If you solely master cold approach you'll hit a point like @Zenterus where your ability to seduce women is quite strong but the systems of your life are not matching your level of success in that area. 

Edited 3 hours ago by LordFall

[Raze]

And Dan Bilzerian, hoe math, Casey Zander, and Orion Taraban are all either mentally ill, grifters, or know nothing about game, or all of the above. They aren’t good resources.

[Raze]

2 minutes ago, LordFall said:

 

Not thousands you can usually get away with dming a couple hundred, it's quite easy and you get to meet the hottest women in your city on your terms this way. I've been consistently using this method to host my own events for the past few years.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cq3Ys7vvAAa/

 

If the average guy does that he is just going to be used by women and look try hard.

[LordFall]

4 minutes ago, Raze said:

And Dan Bilzerian, hoe math, Casey Zander, and Orion Taraban are all either mentally ill, grifters, or know nothing about game, or all of the above. They aren’t good resources.

I think some of these guys indeed have blindspots that we should take into consideration but listening to them in long form podcasts and learning from their strongsuits I would highly recommend. 

Can you share more of your own dating journey and your results? I think perhaps you are over emphasizing the negatives, I'm curious where that comes from. 

3 minutes ago, Raze said:

If the average guy does that he is just going to be used by women and look try hard.

Well you use hosting events as part of your strategy, to raise your status and the women you have access to. If you do it the right way you'll get paid for it as well so it's a great skillset to learn. You shouldn't be used by women it should be a value exchange that enhances both of your lives.

If you do it without strategy then yes you can spend thousands of dollars and not accomplish much. 

Edited 3 hours ago by LordFall

[Miguel1]

The names dropped her makes me want to puke a little

[LordFall]

4 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

The names dropped her makes me want to puke a little

How so? 

[Miguel1]

4 minutes ago, LordFall said:

How so? 

Bro, you are quite stuck in orange if you don’t see that these men have no character.

[LordFall]

12 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

Bro, you are quite stuck in orange if you don’t see that these men have no character.

I think you're stuck in unhealthy stage green if you're dismissing anyone that has flaws that don't fit your values and refusing to learn from the very real results that they have in their lives. 

[Valach]

18 minutes ago, LordFall said:

I think you're stuck in unhealthy stage green if you're dismissing anyone that has flaws that don't fit your values and refusing to learn from the very real results that they have in their lives. 

Which is precisely a stage orange approach that you are describing. "The end justifies the means".

Edited 1 hour ago by Valach

[Zenterus]

2 hours ago, LordFall said:

If you solely master cold approach you'll hit a point like @Zenterus where your ability to seduce women is quite strong but the systems of your life are not matching your level of success in that area. 

Damn man, why you gotta do me like that.

Thought we were homies.

[LordFall]

15 minutes ago, Zenterus said:

Damn man, why you gotta do me like that.

Thought we were homies.

We are, that's why I tell people here the truth as I see it and don't give them useless platitudes. If I didn't like you guys and didn't respect Leo I wouldn't give out all my best secrets for free on the forum, I charge for this stuff usually.

Which is why I appreciated your cold approach critique on my approach. I'm not here to stay in a safety bubble, I'm here to actualize my greatest potential and live out my wildest dreams. 

20 minutes ago, Valach said:

Which is precisely a stage orange approach that you are describing. "The end justifies the means".

I never said that. I suggested a creating a cohesive system that connects different parts of your life to your goals and learning world class ideas from the best people in the world in their field. Humans are not perfect but if you can't learn social media game from Dan Bilzerian or Sartain idk who you're learning it from. You probably never will and your results will never be as scaled as they could be. 

I started a new daily content strategy and 5700 women have seen my Instagram content so far this month. That's not much in the grand scheme of things but I already occassionally get cold dms hitting on me so when the strategy is optimized it should by itself both run my business and my dating life.

This is what I mean by connecting different parts of your life instead of spending 10 hours cold approaching for at best a couple dates.

Edited 55 minutes ago by LordFall

[Valach]

23 minutes ago, LordFall said:

 

I never said that. I suggested a creating a cohesive system that connects different parts of your life to your goals and learning world class ideas from the best people in the world in their field. Humans are not perfect but if you can't learn social media game from Dan Bilzerian or Sartain idk who you're learning it from. You probably never will and your results will never be as scaled as they could be. 

I started a new daily content strategy and 5700 women have seen my Instagram content so far this month. That's not much in the grand scheme of things but I already occassionally get cold dms hitting on me so when the strategy is optimized it should by itself both run my business and my dating life.

This is what I mean by connecting different parts of your life instead of spending 10 hours cold approaching for at best a couple dates.

Yea, which are all stage orange values. That's fine, but let's call it what it is.

Edited 35 minutes ago by Valach

[LordFall]

8 minutes ago, Valach said:

Yea, which are all stage orange values. That's fine, but let's call it what it is.

I think you missunderstand spiral dynamics if you think avoiding values from other stages is the goal. Community is a stage blue value would you think that's worth avoiding? The goal is to integrate them as you move up the spiral and become a more developped human being. 

[Valach]

4 minutes ago, LordFall said:

I think you missunderstand spiral dynamics if you think avoiding values from other stages is the goal. Community is a stage blue value would you think that's worth avoiding? The goal is to integrate them as you move up the spiral and become a more developped human being. 

I agree that higher stages integrate the healthy aspects of lower stages rather than rejecting them. There's nothing inherently wrong with ambition, business, social media, or building systems—those are valuable Orange capacities.

My point is that what you're describing is still primarily an Orange value system. Throughout the thread the emphasis is on optimization, leverage, scaling, status, access to higher-caliber women, and maximizing results. That's a perfectly legitimate perspective, but let's call it what it is.

As I've developed, I've found that I care less about whether someone is successful in one domain and more about the values they embody as a whole. Teachers don't just transmit techniques—they also transmit the worldview and priorities behind those techniques.

So yes, I can absolutely learn event hosting or social media from someone like Sartain. But if their underlying philosophy revolves around optimizing status, women, and external success, I'm going to be much more selective about how much I model myself after them. Effectiveness is important, but it's no longer the only metric I use.

[LordFall]

Fair enough. It also helps you make friends with women and scale your business so it's not solely a pickup strategy. You could also use these teachings to push a social cause/non-profit or for political reasons; leverage has many uses depending on your current goals.