why women fall for narcissists

[Olaf]

I have been thinking a lot about why women fall for narcissists, and it came to me today.

Most women have too many options. As a man, unless you work on yourself, your options are quite limited. You have to put in effort to get more options, whether by improving your social skills or through other forms of self-improvement.

If a woman has so many options, an abundance of men, she naturally becomes more selective and conditional. The idea of unconditional love becomes very foreign when you have endless options. If you have very few options, one person can become your whole world. You can fall deeply in love quite easily, actually. Yet, if you have too many options, it becomes almost impossible to fall in love because you are constantly comparing. You think, "This person has this, but that person has that." You will never be truly satisfied.

That is basically what is happening with women. Due to this abundance, they are not easily satisfied, and if they have a lot of options, they become more conditional. The only person who can override all of those standards is a narcissist because a narcissist's frame is, "You are less than me." If you are less than me, then all of your standards do not mean anything.

A narcissist also doesn't truly feel love, so they treat you poorly. They give you almost nothing, or they give you breadcrumbs, which makes women chase them like crazy. It is one of the few situations where their standards are thrown out the window.

The only woman who can withstand a narcissist is one who is emotionally mature or has become mature, either by having been in a relationship with a narcissist or by already having self-love and self-respect. With self-respect, you are far less likely to fall for a one-sided relationship.

The one-sided relationship makes them feel like they have won. They feel they have won because they have access to the narcissist. But what a terrible prize to win!

If a woman is with a narcissist, she might be happy for a while, believing she has found something special, someone who doesn't love her, doesn't put her on a pedestal, and even treats her poorly, which she interprets as meaning he MUST be better than her. Of course, this is only an illusion created by the narcissist's facade.

When you truly see through the facade, what you are really seeing is a woman falling in love with the illusion of someone she believes is better than her. She falls in love with the image he portrays of himself while seeing herself as the codependent who cannot afford to lose the "prize," which is him. He is seen as the prize because he constantly brings her down while portraying himself as someone far above her. It is all an illusion, a way of controlling the frame.

Of course, the narcissist would not genuinely care for her. If he truly did, she would likely lose interest, unless she had already healed the underlying issues that made her vulnerable to this dynamic. This dynamic can reinforce the idea that men should become narcissistic because it appears to pay off. At the same time, it encourages women to become codependent. Only after healing that codependency can they find healthy love again.

True love would be two people loving each other, not some one sided relationship (narcissist-codependent) and that is very rare, especially these days.

[Valach]

I think you vastly overestimate how many options (and options worth even considering) woman have.

[Olaf]

@Valach well, a woman can be delusional too, many think that a guy wanting to sleep with her is the same as wanting a relationship with her, so either true or false abundance, same result: they do feel like they have a ton of options. 

[Leo Gura]

It's mostly just because women are attracted to confidence, leadership, and strength. Men with those traits tend to be narcissistic.

Narcissists also offer lots of emotional drama, which is like chick crack.

A mature man is too boring for an immature woman. She needs the excitement of emotional drama.

Edited 4 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Raze]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's mostly just because women are attracted to confidence, leadership, and strength. Men with those traits tend to be narcissistic.

No they don’t. Narcissists just imitate those traits, in reality they are insecure deep down, will never take accountability, and crumble and retreat when confronted 

[Valach]

Just now, Raze said:

No they don’t. Narcissists just imitate those traits, in reality they are insecure deep down, will never take accountability, and crumble and retreat when confronted 

Most people are insecure and resonate with people on their wavelength.

[Leo Gura]

21 minutes ago, Raze said:

No they don’t. Narcissists just imitate those traits, in reality they are insecure deep down, will never take accountability, and crumble and retreat when confronted 

That's a level of analysis no woman cares about when dating.

Regardless of their internal problems, narcissists tend to be very effective at survival. Which is all that attraction cares about. Attraction does not care about the deep truth of people's souls.

Whatever bad stuff we might say about Trump, he is effective at survival. And that's enough for most women to sleep with him.

The truth is that women are very, very easy to bullshit because they are attracted to very surface things.

Edited 3 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Olaf]

@Leo Gura Yeah, fake or real confidence, it is mainly about how you portray yourself to be. How you market yourself. A narcissist is an excellent marketer with nothing to offer. 

[Raze]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's a level of analysis no woman cares about when dating.

Regardless of their internal problems, narcissists tend to be very effective at survival. Which is all that attraction cares about. Attraction does not care about the deep truth of people's souls.

Whatever bad stuff we might say about Trump, he is effective at survival. And that's enough for most women to sleep with him.

The truth is that women are very, very easy to bullshit because they are attracted to very surface things.

Narcissist are horrible at survival. They take dumb risks, make enemies, and their egos are too big to learn. Trump got lucky because he inherited his wealth and still went bankrupt multiple times.

What matters to succeed in the modern day isn’t the same as traits that we evolved to be attracted to.

Mark Zuckerberg comes across like a awkward nerd, yet any girl would have been better off dating him in college than some drunk frat bro.

In addition women don’t just want survival, they say they want loyalty, commitment, emotional connection. You aren’t getting that with a narcissist. You are only getting abuse and lies.

Edited 3 hours ago by Raze

[Leo Gura]

22 minutes ago, Raze said:

In addition women don’t just want survival,

It's not about what they logically want. It's about what makes them horny. What makes them horny is deeply encoded, very specific survival factors, like strength and social success.

A successful nerd might be good at survival, but not the survival that makes women horny.

Women are not judging overall survival of a man, but very specific forms of it.

Narcissists have that flash and spice that pulls women in.

Edited 3 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Olaf]

@Raze all these standards of women go out of the window when they meet a narcissist, unless she truly is mature. She will be drawn to a narcissist despite it being a bad choice. Again a narcissist is a great marketer, but it will be one-sided love, everything for him, nothing for her. At the most breadcrumbs. Have you ever eaten a salad and then you looked at a snicker and wanted nothing else then that candy? It is bad, but that is why its good.

[Schizophonia]

Women are attracted to men who allow a pleasant setting/vibe in one way or another.

This is the opposite of narcissism; because you are not masculine according to your ideal self you declare the brutality/confidence of men who want, tend towards these objects of desire as being narcissistic.

But it's precisely this phallic failure that's correlated with narcissism as a defense mechanism. That's what you're doing in this thread, as usual even @Leo Gura  came to the topic to do it; you can't just say "Oh I just don't want to fight too hard for a steak, I'm too laid-back/not sexual enough" you have to cope by making enemies: illogical women and narcissists. It's a form of narcissism.

A few days ago I saw a thread where @AION was projecting all his castration anxiety onto his so-called friends lol

Projecting anxiety and associated affects (fear, hatred…) is still not be phallic; that's why particularly neurotic men generate a more feminine energy than the average man.

Hidden beneath a rigid demeanor; but the passive-aggressiveness is not deceiving.

Edited 1 hour ago by Schizophonia

[Schizophonia]

Of course once again I'm saying all this because I'm still too neurotic and projecting it onto people; I'm just talking to myself. This story will end soon.

[Leo Gura]

@Schizophonia Don't act like women aren't attracted to narcs. We know they are.

Narcs have delusional levels of confidence, which women love. Until it gets weaponized against them.

Look at Trump and Tate as prime examples. They are delusionally over-confident. Do they have a challenge getting women? No.

Edited 1 hour ago by Leo Gura

[Valach]

@Leo Gura I do not have that experience at all. Sure some woman are going to be drawn to it. But these deeply visible narcissists got rejected a lot by woman because they can see through their shit.

I am not saying that dysfunctional men are not attractive ever. But woman are not that stupid in my experience. People in general are stupid around dating, don't get me wrong. Just do not have this almost caricature like experience a lot of redpill/PUA describes. Some chill, fun guy who has normal social skills and level of self esteem is doing way better than Trump level narcissists.

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, Valach said:

is doing way better than Trump level narcissists.

Don't be so sure about that.

Trump and Tate will have much higher bodycounts than an average dude.

Women do seem to be drawn to narcs like magnets.

Don't underestimate how many utterly foolish and immature women are in the dating pool. They are not thinking about the consequences of dating a Trump/Tate.

Not just some women, most women will be drawn to it.

Do not forget that a character like Trump is charming in person. In the news media is very different.

Edited 1 hour ago by Leo Gura

[Schizophonia]

25 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Schizophonia Don't act like women aren't attracted to narcs. We know they are.

No you can easily turn a girl off if you are too narcissistic; according to the kind of girl. 

Masculinity, which attracts women, automaticaly, can manifest in a multitude of forms and indeed a total jerk can end up being more attractive/have more result than someone who is reserved and so do nothing/not enough (again according to the kind of girl).

Putting the disc into the Xbox is more effective than taking care of it with a feather duster (simping?) when it comes to getting the game to start, even if you don't take care of it.

 

I was also and above all saying that just because someone is abrasive doesn't mean they are a narcissist. That is a misuse of the term; narcissism is a delirium, sometimes psychotic, of self-admiration. And it is actually often a response to a lack of confidence or masculinity.

The biggest chad with the hottest girlfriends I’ve run into are actually devoted to external things (sports, motorcycles, girls, food... lol) and they instantly tried to subtly "bottom-ize" me during the interaction. Like they’d stare at me while asking about my problems, what I do, and so on, without ever revealing anything about their own lives.

And conversely when I cross paths with gay men it’s as if they were "hollowed out" and calling on me to step out of my self-absorption specifically to take them as objects and turn them into bottoms. My voice drops, I become more self-assured, and so on.

Edited 1 hour ago by Schizophonia

[Valach]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Don't be so sure about that.

Trump and Tate will have mucy higher bodycounts than an average dude.

Ofcourse, but they are hanging out with deeply dysfunctional people. Who really cares if they are more succesfull at this domain. You are not gonna build a stable relationships with them anyways.

And also it is that inner insecurity (which narcissism tries to cover) that motivates them to get all this success. Healthy people are not really that much driven to get all that ass or money.

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

No you can easily turn a girl off if you are too narcissistic

Sure. But if you are attractive in other ways, girls will put up with anything.

It is amazing what things girls will tolerate in an attractive guy.

An attractive guy can be a serial killer and girls will still be down.

Edited 1 hour ago by Leo Gura

[Schizophonia]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Sure. But if you are attractive in other ways, girls will put up with anything.

It is amazing what things girls will tolerate in an attractive guy.

Yes but it’s the same thing; you’d be more forgiving of a pretty girl than of a girl who looks like a rhinoceros.