They/Them: Help me find a higher level understanding

[Elliott]

16 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Elliott no, I would just wonder if they were okay ¯⁠\⁠(⁠°⁠_⁠o⁠)⁠/⁠¯

I doubt that, what if it happened regularly

Edited 12 hours ago by Elliott

[Natasha Tori Maru]

5 minutes ago, Elliott said:

I doubt that

That's cool. You don't know me. 

[Elliott]

2 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

That's cool. You don't know me. 

But you know transgenders.......

 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Elliott no. I don't. That's what I am saying in my post. ¿Comprende?

That is different to not accepting. Or not being accommodating to their preferred pronouns and paying due respect. Or saying they are wrong, unacceptable or bad. 

You assume the worst of people systematically on these forums.

Edited 12 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Elliott]

49 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Elliott no. I don't. That's what I am saying in my post. ¿Comprende?

 

Yes you are, you said pronouns are not a personal boundary

 

Edited 11 hours ago by Elliott

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Elliott yes this is because personal boundaries are about what we let in, not about controlling others. This is why I am confused around the framing of pronouns in this way. You can have a preference for sure - it's just not a boundary in the psychological sense. 

Edited 11 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Elliott]

8 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Elliott yes this is because personal boundaries are about what we let in, not about controlling others. This is why I am confused around the framing of pronouns in this way. You can have a preference for sure - it's just not a boundary in the psychological sense. 

Then why do you ban me when I identify people as idiots? It's the same thing.

 

 

 

Edited 11 hours ago by Elliott

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Elliott forum rules. Context etc. You usually get snarky with an attitude then fling insults.

Calling someone an idiot is hard to misinterpret. There's also no need to call someone an idiot. Avoidable.

Calling someone the wrong pronoun on accident is not always so clear it is an offense. There is usually a need on application for pronouns in normal speech. It can be unavoidable without some language alterations that might not be natural. Additionally not every non-binary person cares about pronouns.

Edited 11 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Elliott]

11 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Elliott forum rules. Context etc. You usually get snarky with an attitude then fling insults.

Calling someone an idiot is hard to misinterpret. There's also no need to call someone an idiot. Avoidable.

Calling someone the wrong pronoun on accident is not always so clear it is an offense. There is usually a need on application for pronouns in normal speech. It can be unavoidable without some language alterations that might not be natural. Additionally not every non-binary person cares about pronouns.

We're not talking about calling someone the wrong pronoun on accident, you explicitly said when someone requests to be called a pronoun. And I obviously sincerely thought the people were idiots.

Edited 10 hours ago by Elliott

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Elliott yep

I chalk it up mostly to the individual possibly having a lot of trouble coming to terms with their identity, and so once found, discovered and integrated - they attach to labels to feel safe and understood. The struggle to accept themselves could possible be projected out and viewed as doubly harmful the perceive others are not accepting them as they are if they do not use their preferred terms.

I just don't have that experience, so while I can conceptually understand it - it's not the same as really knowing.

But it's not a boundary in the strict sense. To be clear I am just not able to accept the pronoun argument when it is framed as a boundary. If they just prefer it and dont claim it as a boundary that makes more sense. And is acceptable. It doesn't need to be framed as a boundary to be a legitimate thing. 

[Elliott]

18 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Elliott yep

I chalk it up mostly to the individual possibly having a lot of trouble coming to terms with their identity, and so once found, discovered and integrated - they attach to labels to feel safe and understood. The struggle to accept themselves could possible be projected out and viewed as doubly harmful the perceive others are not accepting them as they are if they do not use their preferred terms.

I just don't have that experience, so while I can conceptually understand it - it's not the same as really knowing.

But it's not a boundary in the strict sense. To be clear I am just not able to accept the pronoun argument when it is framed as a boundary. If they just prefer it and dont claim it as a boundary that makes more sense. And is acceptable. It doesn't need to be framed as a boundary to be a legitimate thing. 

Yet you have an issue with someone publicly identifying an idiot. You're the only one that brought up the nebulous qualifier "boundary"

Quote

Personal boundaries are the invisible rules and limits you set to protect your physical, emotional, and mental well-being. 

So you're not okay with people enforcing their pronouns(you don't actually know their genitals), and you're also not respectful of others having different "boundaries" than you.

Do you identify as a sociopath?

 

Edited 10 hours ago by Elliott

[Natasha Tori Maru]

3 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Yet you have an issue with someone publicly identifying an idiot. You're the only one that brought up the nebulous qualifier "boundary"

But that was what I illustrated from the start - the boundary part? I elaborated on the fallacy of the idiot comparison above.

You know. You don't want to try to understand. You have way too much to prove. And I know how you operate once you get locked on. Your rhetoric digs your own grave in repeat cycles all over the forum.

Catch 

[Elliott]

26 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

But that was what I illustrated from the start - the boundary part? I elaborated on the fallacy of the idiot comparison above.

You know. You don't want to try to understand. You have way too much to prove. And I know how you operate once you get locked on. Your rhetoric digs your own grave in repeat cycles all over the forum.

Catch 

You'reprojecting. You're being evasive, again, hit and run posting, you better ban yourself I know how much you care about the rules!!

Edited 9 hours ago by Elliott

[Yimpa]

This Leo video ties in well to this thread!

https://www.threads.com/@leogura1/post/DbKXbqAEolA?xmt=AQG0zH1d7KCbI2V4pFEIrL5FSxXIYxOJVh1SpIcp8dnzQp5Jo3wiQoPjFgluE9Ey1lSP8Rqa&slof=1

[Basman]

If people can't tell what you are from how you look then that's a skill issue.

Of course, there are some who you genuinely can't tell. But after a while you can kind of tell anyway. Like they have huge tits and are frail af. It's entitled and weird to try and control people's perception, which is kind of why I think it's in large part ideological.

Not just the notion that gender is just fluid but also that gender is whatever you think it is in a post-modern sort of way. That's where you lose a lot of people in my opinion because it's detached from material reality. 

[Yimpa]

I personally used they/them pronouns from 2024-25, when I was still in the beginning stages of openly transitioning. It was a necessary middle gap while I was still figuring out who I was. I was still in denial of being a trans woman then. But those years of immense pain and struggle eventually cracked me open. While socially and medically transitioning with hormones, I dealt with severe medical complications all over my body and family backlash. And, of course, Trump coming back into power again, with conservatives putting into law that there are only two sexes. All that trauma and torture paradoxically helped me finally take the plunge, put a line in the sand and stop playing games and just accept who I am now.

I refused to use she/her pronouns for a while cus of my religious upbringing, and quite frankly, internalized transphobia that I needed to deconstruct. I refused to wear dresses and put on makeup cus I genuinely felt that it was disgusting that a biological/AMAB should do that. I judged the shit out of them. Thankfully I outgrew that fear with lots of therapy and exposure to trans people, and now I’m loving what I wear now, my expression. I am much more stable emotionally, physically and mentally compared to when I was a man. With that said, I still have remnants of transphobia that I still struggle with, days where I still deny who I am . It’s not all gone; it’s an ongoing process

Edited 1 hour ago by Yimpa