Martin Ball "Full release dose" first, then plugging 5-MeO? + 2C-B Question

[ZenSwift]

I’ve heard the argument from Martin Ball that it may be easier to do "a full-release dose" of 5-MeO-DMT  first, because the intensity forces complete surrender, as opposed to working with doses that are too low. 

With lower or longer-lasting plugged experiences, enough of the ego may remain to resist, which can actually make surrender harder.

Martin Ball also describes a "full release dose" as a completely different state from a low, medium, or even strong 5meodmt dose. As being "not even in the same ballpark."

Martin Ball argues that if you do not have a full release dose early, it actually makes it more difficult for the ego to surrender. 

🔴 What are your thoughts on this approach: Experiencing full release first, then later working with longer plugged experiences?

At this point, it appears to me that there's no pussy footing at all with working with 5-MeO-DMT. It's a full 100% commitment, going all the way. Or at least there's nothing you can really do to protect yourself from fearful experiences. You're going to face the biggest fear of your death, full stop.

 

In addition to that, there's another side topic: Speaking with other Psychonauts who will have a high dose of 2C-B, and then 6 hours later (full comedown), they will take a strong dose of 5-MeO-DMT. The reported experience was a much easier surrender into the 5MEO-DMT experience. Even far easier than with the use of MDMA. The MDMA reportedly helped with the nerves of taking 5-MeO-DMT, but it didn't help with the actual surrender part.

In contrast, the actual surrender process on 5-MeO-DMT was greatly assisted after a strong experience with 2C-B due to it "softening up the ego" quite a bit. 

Edited Sunday at 10:41 PM by ZenSwift

[Schizophonia]

He is still at that stage of emotional and fixation; consequently his work is ineffective.

I don't know if it's still the case but he also manifested extreme insomnia some years ago.

If your guru doesn't have (and lead to) an exceptional or joyful life then their paradigm is flawed it’s as simple as that.

In general those who essentially rely on psychedelics fail to attain "higher consciousness" in a state of sobriety.

Edited 17 hours ago by Schizophonia

[Leo Gura]

The problem is you still have no idea what the dose will be for you.

Starting with beyond a strong dose of 5-MeO-DMT is dangerous and traumatizing.

Start with 15mg at most, plugged. Increment from there. Starting with a breakthrough dose is a bad idea, even if it easier for the ego to surrender.

Sure, the ego can resist more at lower doses, but that is still perferable to starting on a very high dose.

Do not underestimate how traumatizing very strong doses of any psychedelic can be. That is no joke.

Don't worry. You can always take more. You can never take less.

Edited 16 hours ago by Leo Gura

[ROOBIO]

38 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

He is still at that stage of emotional and fixation; consequently his work is ineffective.

I don't know if it's still the case but he also manifested extreme insomnia some years ago.

If your guru doesn't have (and lead to) an exceptional or joyful life then their paradigm is flawed it’s as simple as that.

In general those who essentially rely on psychedelics fail to attain "higher consciousness" in a state of sobriety.

this just isnt true lol

Edited 16 hours ago by ROOBIO

[Schizophonia]

39 minutes ago, ROOBIO said:

this just isnt true lol

Don't be more loyal to Martin than to yourself.

[ROOBIO]

54 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Don't be more loyal to Martin than to yourself.

I'm not, but he does have a point, and the way he expresses it is pretty authentic to him. I don't think that swearing or saying something in a bad tone means your paradigm is completely wrong. 

The way you speak or act isn't a reflection of the depth of insight that you've obtained in your life. 

And he does have a point about Trump, and from our human point of view, Trump is what he says and has committed a lot of atrocities. It's insane that he's actually president. 

But in the absolute sense, it's the way it has to have gone. Trump absolutely must exist. So you can love him for that, but still call him a twat. 

[Schizophonia]

2 hours ago, ROOBIO said:

I'm not, but he does have a point, and the way he expresses it is pretty authentic to him. I don't think that swearing or saying something in a bad tone means your paradigm is completely wrong. 

The way you speak or act isn't a reflection of the depth of insight that you've obtained in your life. 

And he does have a point about Trump, and from our human point of view, Trump is what he says and has committed a lot of atrocities. It's insane that he's actually president. 

If he were truly more conscious than average he wouldn't care about Trump/he would speak about him stoically, especially since as a self-proclaimed non-dualist he is supposed to be aware that Trump is a reflection. 

We want more joy or intensity in general but as i said once again Martin Ball is still busy insulting Trump like a child and stomping his feet in anger, and his life isn't particularly great and he even developed a serious chronic illness a few years ago.

What probably happens is since he bases his theory essentially on psychedelic experiences once he’s sober he reverts to being just an random ego at best.

Why would you want to vomit all over yourself and end up covered in bruises while on 5-MeO-DMT when none of the people who use it regularly have anything to show for it? Psychedelics in general.  A tree is judged by its fruit. Where are the guys who turn their lives around thanks to 5-MeO? "Hey, I used to be depressed, do cocaine, and dress up as a girl. Now thanks to 5-MeO-DMT I’ve become a tennis coach, i eat ice cream and I live in a state of bliss nigga"

2 hours ago, ROOBIO said:

But in the absolute sense, it's the way it has to have gone. Trump absolutely must exist. So you can love him for that, but still call him a twat. 

No it doesnt; I personnaly almost never think about Trump I don't even really have an opinion on him.
He thinks about Trump because he is Trump; he projects things onto him.
Impulsiveness it seems in this case.

[ROOBIO]

6 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

If he were truly more conscious than average he wouldn't care about Trump/he would speak about him stoically, especially since as a self-proclaimed non-dualist he is supposed to be aware that Trump is a reflection. 

We want more joy or intensity in general but as i said once again Martin Ball is still busy insulting Trump like a child and stomping his feet in anger, and his life isn't particularly great and he even developed a serious chronic illness a few years ago.

What probably happens is since he bases his theory essentially on psychedelic experiences once he’s sober he reverts to being just an random ego at best.

Why would you want to vomit all over yourself and end up covered in bruises while on 5-MeO-DMT when none of the people who use it regularly have anything to show for it? Psychedelics in general.  A tree is judged by its fruit. Where are the guys who turn their lives around thanks to 5-MeO? "Hey, I used to be depressed, do cocaine, and dress up as a girl. Now thanks to 5-MeO-DMT I’ve become a tennis coach, i eat ice cream and I live in a state of bliss nigga"

No it doesnt; I personnaly almost never think about Trump I don't even really have an opinion on him.
He thinks about Trump because he is Trump; he projects things onto him.
Impulsiveness it seems in this case.

You're doing the exact same thing by judging people taking 5-MeO-DMT, throwing up on themselves and saying they've got nothing to show for it. Who cares? People do 5-MeO-DMT for many reasons. They don't need to have anything to show for it.

Not all practices produce visible external fruit. Contemplative traditions have said this for millennia, the fruit is internal (equanimity, freedom from craving, seeing through self).

Not external (career change, ice cream, tennis coach). Judging spiritual practices by lifestyle-improvement metrics misses the point.

 

Edited 3 hours ago by ROOBIO