Sri Niagaradasti Enlightenment Story

[Wilhelm44]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

The permanent cessation of the separate self is unnecessary and a myth.

As far as the myth part goes, you would probably need to question Nisargadatta, Jim Newman, or Marshmellow, on their daily experience of life. I think they are highly likely to say otherwise.

[Wilhelm44]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

All those non-dualistic teachers who go to the forest do so because their mothers feed them. Without their mothers and their bottles, they would face the reality of life.

I don't know these people you are referring to, right now I'm resonating with Jim, he seems to be quite balanced.

[Wilhelm44]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Then we could say: there is no separate self if others who work hard feed me, since I deserve it and they are unconscious fools.

Most spiritual teachers refer to dreamlike quality, Leo says it's all imagined etc.

The mistake you're making is thinking this will lead to disrespecting of things

No, it actually leads to more love, unless someone is a zen devil of course.

People who are full on materialists tend to disrespect things way more.

[Someone here]

19 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

The permanent cessation of the separate self is unnecessary and a myth.

Finally you got this one correct. There is never going to a permanent cessation of the separate self ..but just because there is no separate self to begin with .

[Someone here]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

All those non-dualistic teachers who go to the forest do so because their mothers feed them. Without their mothers and their bottles, they would face the reality of life. All that would be absolutely legitimate if they would admit the reality of separation of the form and the intelligence of the reality finding the optimal possibility, but no, they affirm that everything is illusion 

Then we could say: there is no separate self if others who work hard feed me, since I deserve it and they are unconscious fools.

Then, since nothing matters, I give lectures and write books to earn millions and be idolized. I do this work because I don't care. Ah, from now on call me "primordial peace of the morning full of spring dew". In Indian, please. 

My god .

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Most spiritual teachers refer to dreamlike quality, Leo says it's all imagined etc.

The mistake you're making is thinking this will lead to disrespecting of things

No, it actually leads to more love, unless someone is a zen devil of course.

People who are full on materialists tend to disrespect things way more.

6 hours ago, Wilhelm44 said:

 

To say that reality is dreamlike implies that there is a dreamer, a mind that creates reality. The very word "reality" implies that there cannot be a higher level than it; nothing creates reality, since that creator would be "reality," and reality would be unreal. 

This is a flawed formulation. Try this: reality is unlimited being, and its inevitable quality or manifestation is unlimited dynamism. Manifestation and essence are one, there is not substance without form, no form without substance. 

Forms are absolutely real, because they are the reality. Defining them as "love" is condescendence. Is putting yourself, a manifested form, above the reality naming it, like if the reality is a fool kid to be defined but here you are "essential peace sublime full of love" (in Sanskrit)  to forgive the reality and defining it from inside that reality, in exchange of being idolized 

Edited 3 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

Stop singing and counting your accounts. Whom do you worship in that dark, lonely corner of your temple, with all the doors closed? Open your eyes and see: Your God is not before you!

“He is there, where the farmer digs the hard earth and where the stonecutter breaks the stones. He is with them under the sun and the rain, his garment covered in dust. Take off your sacred mantle and, like Him, go down into the mud of the earth!”

Tagore

[Breakingthewall]

Liberation? Where can we find that liberation? Our Master himself has joyfully taken upon himself the bonds of creation; he is bound with us forever.

Tagore.

In other words: Buddha, stop being a pussy scaping from suffering because suffering is the reality. 

[Wilhelm44]

31 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

To say that reality is dreamlike implies that there is a dreamer, a mind that creates reality. The very word "reality" implies that there cannot be a higher level than it; nothing creates reality, since that creator would be "reality," and reality would be unreal. 

This is a flawed formulation. Try this: reality is unlimited being, and its inevitable quality or manifestation is unlimited dynamism. Manifestation and essence are one, there is not substance without form, no form without substance. 

Forms are absolutely real, because they are the reality. Defining them as "love" is condescendence. Is putting yourself, a manifested form, above the reality naming it, like if the reality is a fool kid to be defined but here you are "essential peace sublime full of love" (in Hindu)  to forgive the reality and defining it, in exchange of being idolized 

When you say no form without substance, is that substance not Nothingness ? Are we not talking about groundless Being here ?

[Wilhelm44]

11 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Stop singing and counting your accounts. Whom do you worship in that dark, lonely corner of your temple, with all the doors closed? Open your eyes and see: Your God is not before you!

“He is there, where the farmer digs the hard earth and where the stonecutter breaks the stones. He is with them under the sun and the rain, his garment covered in dust. Take off your sacred mantle and, like Him, go down into the mud of the earth!”

Tagore

Yes, we get it, we still gotta provide some service to make a living.

[Breakingthewall]

To say that the essence of reality is nothingness is the quintessential Buddhist evasion. The essence of reality is, obviously, unlimited being.

Unlimited being is the inevitable consequence of limitlessness or absence of restrictions, and being unlimited has no opposite, such as non-being or nothingness.

Nothingness is merely an idea; it is impossible since it would require being contained, limited by something . 

Being is absolute, because non being don't is. Quite simple imo

Edited 3 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Wilhelm44]

13 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Liberation? Where can we find that liberation? Our Master himself has joyfully taken upon himself the bonds of creation; he is bound with us forever.

Tagore.

In other words: Buddha, stop being a pussy scaping from suffering because suffering is the reality. 

Lets not start worshipping suffering either. Nothing wrong with removing some psychological suffering.

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Lets not start worshipping suffering either. Nothing wrong with removing some psychological suffering.

Of course, also physical suffering, less better because we are humans. The problem is defining it as false and the absolute as absence of suffering when we see that suffering is. This is not self help, this is the real opening to the unlimited. Spirituality tells you: extinguish your candle to find the truth. Imo that's not the truth, it's just anesthesia 

Edited 3 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Wilhelm44]

17 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

To say that the essence of reality is nothingness is the quintessential Buddhist evasion. The essence of reality is, obviously, unlimited being.

Unlimited being is the inevitable consequence of limitlessness or absence of restrictions, and being unlimited has no opposite, such as non-being or nothingness.

Nothingness is merely an idea; it is impossible since it would require being contained, limited. 

Im talking about a Nothingness which has no opposite. Its not the opposite of something. It's indescribable mystery. Has as it's nature unconditional freedom, unconditional love, infinite beauty. And has the infinite ability to appear as anything under the sun and beyond. We talking about the same 'thing' and getting hung up on words. Tell me, what exact substance is unlimited being made of ? Can it really be put into words ?

Edited 3 hours ago by Wilhelm44

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Im talking about a Nothingness which has no opposite. Its not the opposite of something. It's indescribable mystery. Has as it's nature unconditional freedom, unconditional love, infinite beauty. And has the infinite ability to appear as anything under the sun and beyond. We talking about the same 'thing' and getting hung up on words. Tell me, what exact substance is unlimited being made of ? Can it really be put into words ?

Unlimited being is the fact of being because there are not limits, affirmative drive without opposite. Calling it "nothingness" is just confusion because it is. It's not a mystery, it's obvious, it's the inevitable consequence of no restrictions and we are that.  Any name that we could give has the sole purpose of allowing ourselves to being open to this reality, and nothingness is a term that implies exclusion and closure. 

[Wilhelm44]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Of course, also physical suffering, less better because we are humans. The problem is defining it as false and the absolute as absence of suffering when we see that suffering is. This is not self help, this is the real opening to the unlimited. Spirituality tells you: extinguish your candle to find the truth. Imo that's not the truth, it's just anesthesia 

Is the drop in the ocean's true nature to be eternally separate from the ocean ?

[Wilhelm44]

11 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Unlimited being is the fact of being because there are not limits, affirmative drive without opposite. Calling it "nothingness" is just confusion because it is. It's not a mystery, it's obvious, it's the inevitable consequence of no restrictions and we are that.  Any name that we could give has the sole purpose of allowing ourselves to being open to this reality, and nothingness is a term that implies exclusion and closure. 

Yeah, I guess the word Nothingness has negative connotations for some people. It feels free and light and infinitely flexible to me. 

[Breakingthewall]

7 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Is the drop in the ocean's true nature to be eternally separate from the ocean ?

Form is not a drop in the ocean; it is the ocean in a drop, you know the famous phrase. This is because there isn't an ocean formed by many drops, but rather each drop is the ocean in the form of a drop.

Put another way, form is not an illusion but the inevitable manifestation of being. Denying its reality and defining it as an illusion closes you off, and what we seek is to open us up.

[Wilhelm44]

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

Finally you got this one correct. There is never going to a permanent cessation of the separate self ..but just because there is no separate self to begin with .

This is true, yet there was an apparent moment or non moment where Jim died so to speak.

Here is Mellowmarsh's description of what happened for her:

"Yes, for me it was an instantaneous, spontaneous for want of a better word.

I’d been trying to understand myself from the moment I became aware of myself at the age of 4 or 5 

I was naturally drawn to nondual teaching. Then after looking into that teaching, it wasn’t long before the Big Bang happened, where my whole body exploded into nothingness. Lol that’s how I like to describe my experience anyway, albeit illusory. Lol"

[Wilhelm44]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Form is not a drop in the ocean; it is the ocean in a drop, you know the famous phrase. This is because there isn't an ocean formed by many drops, but rather each drop is the ocean in the form of a drop.

Put another way, form is not an illusion but the inevitable manifestation of being. Denying its reality and defining it as an illusion closes you off, and what we seek is to open us up.

Once again I think there's some misunderstanding here.

It's not a case of denying reality.

I'd say it's more about pointing out that the materialist paradigm of physicality that we were brought up with, is an illusion.