happiness

[Ziran]

 

7 hours ago, Judy2 said:

i've been contemplating the topic of happiness

In English there's two general categories of happiness:

1)  "Acclaim" - this is the feeling one has when a beneficial story the individual has crafted for themself comes to fruition such that it's undeniable, "written with fire in the sky", for everyone to see.  Example:  designing a house, and then feeling happy when it is completed.

2) "Joy" - this is the feeling one has when a malevolent story the individual has crafted for themself flips dramatically such that the malevolent has become benevolent.  Bad has flipped to good.  Example:  getting on a roller-coaster, slowly going up the big hill, dangling over the edge, then... whoosh you feel like you're flying not falling.

Acclaim is a satisfying feeling which settles the mind-and-heart ,the psyche.
Joy, in stark contrast is an arousal which unsettles the mind-and-heart, the psyche.

7 hours ago, Judy2 said:

i still see some obstacles that i would like to discuss

ok

7 hours ago, Judy2 said:

even when life is good or when we see some improvements, we can still worry about the future, what may go wrong, what may be taken away, what may fail....and if we followed through with that logic, it could technically mean that we can never be happy because there is always a chance that something will go wrong. 

 Because these stories are open-ended, it's challenging to encounter either acclaim or joy.

7 hours ago, Judy2 said:

how do you free yourself from this anxiety?

2 ways that work for me:

Transmute the anxiety into wonder.  They're distant opposing extremes of the same underlying cognition.   Either one can be derived from its opposing partner.   In this modern world, with instant access to facts and knowledge, wondering has become discouraged.  Most people don't appreciate the unknown.  Unknowns are outside of their locus of control.  Modern people don't like that.  They want to know.  Knowing makes them feel powerful.  Instead, embrace the unknown as a source of awe and wonder.  Find pleasure in the unknown as a source of surprise.  This technique is useful because the inner-story telling doesn't need to change.  It naturally cultivates joy when the unknown potential for harm/losing is replaced by unknown potential for help/gaining.

Another way involves chopping up the inner-story into bite-size chunks which have distinct endings.  Then, do the work to map out how to get to the endings of these bite size "side-quests" for lack of a better word.  Look for opportunities to flip the script on the harmful/losing outcomes.  And do the work to "stack the deck" in your favor to accomplish the helping/gaining outcomes.  

Specifically how?

7 hours ago, Judy2 said:

just detach completely?

My vote?  No.  It's the opposite.  Happiness necessarily is attached to outcome.  Detachment brings stasis and a form of bliss which is like returning to the womb.  Many people are seeking this due to trauma, frustration, and bafflement.  But, it's not a panacea for everyone.  Those who seek detachment religiously, and are devoted to it like a god, will say it's the **only** way.  And it's true for them.  It is the **only** way for them. 

7 hours ago, Judy2 said:

it's also naive to say that our happiness as human beings isn't tied to certain conditions (health, social bonds, etc.).

Agreed.  This is the distinction between happiness, in all its forms, and bliss in all its forms.  Detachment is an inward-journeying.  Embracing the unknown as a path towards enlightenment ( literally en-lightening the burdens of life ) is called by many a "Fool's Journey".  It's out-going.  It's the opposite of detachment.  It's integrating/connecting.

The Fool is the unexpected hero of this story.   See below, in a spoiler to save space on-screen.  The story is included in the Tarot pantheon/construct, but, the purpose isn't foretelling the future.  The purpose is to find the Hero-Fool as it exists within oneself and others.  Once it is found within the heart-and-mind, it can be called on in response to life's events, connecting them to opportunities instead of defaulting into void.

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Ziran

[gettoefl]

19 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I don't understand what are you saying. 

Quote

 

Pain is quite simply the thought of evil taking on form, and then working havoc in your divine mind. Pain is the penalty you have gladly paid not to be free. In pain does fear appear to triumph over love, and time replace eternity and Heaven. And the world becomes a cruel and a bitter place, where sorrow rules and little joys give way before the onslaught of the savage pain that waits to end all joy in misery.

Lay down your arms dear child, and come without defense into the quiet place where perfect peace holds all things still at last. Lay down all thoughts of harm and of fear. Let no attack enter with you. Lay down the cruel sword of judgment that you hold against your throat, and put aside the withering assaults with which you seek to hide your majesty.

 

[Ziran]

7 hours ago, Judy2 said:

many people (myself included) corrupt the meditative space by daydreaming, overthinking, etc. it's kind of what i do when i'm running and trying to think of the right thing to think about

It's a transitional stage of meditative cognition.  The heart is "Running and Returning" like the "living creatures" in Ezekiel's vision of the heavens.  The advice given, traditionally, "If your the heart is running, return it to *the-place-beyond* " which is envisioned as a distant point.  Then carry on with the meditation. 

Alternatively, some consider these errant thoughts to be blessings in disguise.  They take note of them like one would do in a dream journal.

Either way, trying to avoid the thoughts usually backfires, so, just go with the flow.

[Ziran]

7 hours ago, Osaid said:

Focus on anything which is absolutely certain in your experience.

Your breath. Your heartbeat. A table. Or even just the fact of existing. Anything.

Notice that it is not the future.

Notice that the future is the notion of something other than that.

Then simply keep focus on it, and the unreal will vanish.

Nice.  I love this.

[Judy2]

2 hours ago, Ziran said:

 

In English there's two general categories of happiness:

1)  "Acclaim" - this is the feeling one has when a beneficial story the individual has crafted for themself comes to fruition such that it's undeniable, "written with fire in the sky", for everyone to see.  Example:  designing a house, and then feeling happy when it is completed.

2) "Joy" - this is the feeling one has when a malevolent story the individual has crafted for themself flips dramatically such that the malevolent has become benevolent.  Bad has flipped to good.  Example:  getting on a roller-coaster, slowly going up the big hill, dangling over the edge, then... whoosh you feel like you're flying not falling.

Acclaim is a satisfying feeling which settles the mind-and-heart ,the psyche.
Joy, in stark contrast is an arousal which unsettles the mind-and-heart, the psyche.

ok

 Because these stories are open-ended, it's challenging to encounter either acclaim or joy.

2 ways that work for me:

Transmute the anxiety into wonder.  They're distant opposing extremes of the same underlying cognition.   Either one can be derived from its opposing partner.   In this modern world, with instant access to facts and knowledge, wondering has become discouraged.  Most people don't appreciate the unknown.  Unknowns are outside of their locus of control.  Modern people don't like that.  They want to know.  Knowing makes them feel powerful.  Instead, embrace the unknown as a source of awe and wonder.  Find pleasure in the unknown as a source of surprise.  This technique is useful because the inner-story telling doesn't need to change.  It naturally cultivates joy when the unknown potential for harm/losing is replaced by unknown potential for help/gaining.

Another way involves chopping up the inner-story into bite-size chunks which have distinct endings.  Then, do the work to map out how to get to the endings of these bite size "side-quests" for lack of a better word.  Look for opportunities to flip the script on the harmful/losing outcomes.  And do the work to "stack the deck" in your favor to accomplish the helping/gaining outcomes.  

Specifically how?

My vote?  No.  It's the opposite.  Happiness necessarily is attached to outcome.  Detachment brings stasis and a form of bliss which is like returning to the womb.  Many people are seeking this due to trauma, frustration, and bafflement.  But, it's not a panacea for everyone.  Those who seek detachment religiously, and are devoted to it like a god, will say it's the **only** way.  And it's true for them.  It is the **only** way for them. 

Agreed.  This is the distinction between happiness, in all its forms, and bliss in all its forms.  Detachment is an inward-journeying.  Embracing the unknown as a path towards enlightenment ( literally en-lightening the burdens of life ) is called by many a "Fool's Journey".  It's out-going.  It's the opposite of detachment.  It's integrating/connecting.

The Fool is the unexpected hero of this story.   See below, in a spoiler to save space on-screen.  The story is included in the Tarot pantheon/construct, but, the purpose isn't foretelling the future.  The purpose is to find the Hero-Fool as it exists within oneself and others.  Once it is found within the heart-and-mind, it can be called on in response to life's events, connecting them to opportunities instead of defaulting into void.

  Reveal hidden contents

life is an open-ended story, though. shocker, i know.

[Osaid]

7 hours ago, Judy2 said:

@Osaid i know that too much daydreaming can be dysfunctional, but would you say it's not something that needs to be avoided entirely? atm i sort of scold myself for it whenever i notice myself doing it. 

Meditation has no function, so it's not a problem. 

You might benefit from Ramana's method of inquiry:

Focus on the feeling of being yourself or being aware.

Whenever a thought or experience occurs to you, simply ask "to whom is this occurring to?". Then to answer the question you simply bring focus back to your present self which is aware of the thought or experience. The feeling of being yourself. Stay there.

If another thought arises, simply ask the question again. Keep returning to yourself by prompting the question.

Edited 55 minutes ago by Osaid

[Ziran]

34 minutes ago, Judy2 said:

life is an open-ended story, though. shocker, i know.

I agree.  Open ended with a rhythm.  Life cycles.  Ebbs and flows. 

I'm curious:  When was the last time you did something spontaneous?  How did it feel?

[Osaid]

1 hour ago, Ziran said:

Nice.  I love this.

Awesome

[VeganAwake]

Accept anxious thoughts, don't push them away, but don't overly entertain/identity with them either. Recognize their usefulness, and also notice when they become overwhelming or ridiculous.

Also getting enough rest, eating healthy and exercising is under-rated Imo

Edited 11 minutes ago by VeganAwake

[Judy2]

42 minutes ago, Ziran said:

I agree.  Open ended with a rhythm.  Life cycles.  Ebbs and flows. 

I'm curious:  When was the last time you did something spontaneous?  How did it feel?

i spontaneously mopped the floor just now, if that counts:) 

yesterday, i participated at a sports event. the event itself was planned, but i would suppose within that context i still made a lot of spontaneous micro-decisions...all the way from riding in the car with strangers to crawling up muddy hills and sliding down into water. 

mopping the floor felt neutral to positive. participating at the event felt overwhelming, fun, but also stressful. 

[Judy2]

4 hours ago, Someone here said:

In my experience the only solution to “ worrying about the future “ and just being fully in the moment is by facing some real life difficulties that will make you grateful afterwards for what you have . Like maybe getting an open hurt surgery or something that will make you forever grateful for the fact that you are even alive at all with a well functioning heart and mind . People get hit by trucks..die in fires..lose their kids.. their job etc. Shit happens honey .. But unfortunately that’s the only way to growth . No pain ..no gain . Obviously I don’t endorse you intentionally get yourself into trouble ..But you NEED a spiritual practice that prevents you from getting sucked too deeply into the drama of life. And this will certainly happen. Over and over and over. The practice is navigating this cycle and becoming more skillful at doing so.

Good luck

i think unfortunately the human mind quickly forgets about these things, and then it's back to groundhog day.  

[Judy2]

4 hours ago, Ziran said:

 Instead, embrace the unknown as a source of awe and wonder.  Find pleasure in the unknown as a source of surprise.  This technique is useful because the inner-story telling doesn't need to change.  It naturally cultivates joy when the unknown potential for harm/losing is replaced by unknown potential for help/gaining.

Another way involves chopping up the inner-story into bite-size chunks which have distinct endings.  Then, do the work to map out how to get to the endings of these bite size "side-quests" for lack of a better word.  Look for opportunities to flip the script on the harmful/losing outcomes.  And do the work to "stack the deck" in your favor to accomplish the helping/gaining outcomes.  

  Hide contents

that sounds good, though. still a little abstract, but i will keep that in mind and try to implement it. 

i will check out the video, too.