Do you believe you have free will or that everything is predetermined?

[Never_give_up]

I want to see how many people in this forum believe in determinism or free will. If someone believes in both it's not a problem but personally I don't see how this can be the case. Even if randomness exist and everything is not predetermined, still that doesn't mean there is free will, it's just luck I suspect.

So people of this forum, do you have free will?

This is a question of curiosity, not a metaphysical serious topic, that's why I put it on this thread.

Personaly I vote for determinism  

[Never_give_up]

maybe I should have put it on the intellectual thread. Facepalm 

[Elliott]

Infinity

Every scenario happens, the question is a false dichotomy

Edited 3 hours ago by Elliott

[Asayake]

30 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Infinity

Every scenario happens, the question is a false dichotomy

What about the scenario of there not being infinity and only a few scenarios happening?

[Elliott]

10 minutes ago, Asayake said:

What about the scenario of there not being infinity and only a few scenarios happening?

Yep

[Hojo]

@Asayake Infinity can just be red. If you only experienced red forever that would still be infinity, without the concepts of other people experiencing things.

You can be peeling potato for 10 000 years without questioning you are doing it. Thats infinity too.

Theres only one scenario happening, but the potential for that one scenario to be anything.

Edited 2 hours ago by Hojo

[Someone here]

Find out for yourself .

[Asayake]

46 minutes ago, Hojo said:

@Asayake Infinity can just be red. If you only experienced red forever that would still be infinity, without the concepts of other people experiencing things.

You can be peeling potato for 10 000 years without questioning you are doing it. Thats infinity too.

Theres only one scenario happening, but the potential for that one scenario to be anything.

The issue is that if infinity can be non infinity, then it is not infinity anymore. There's a difference between infinity appearing as non infinity and actual non infinity which would mean literally not infinity by definition. So infinity itself can't be truly infinite in the way you're suggesting. There's a difference between unbounded time & space and conceptual unboundedness.

 

[Hojo]

@Asayake Why cant infinity just be red? If there is nothing else but red?

What if this entire time youve been alive your POV was just red and you never learned a language and were just sitting there. The entire universe would be red to you. You would have no concepts of other people for there to be other people to experience other things.

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Hojo

[RisingLane]

⬇️

[Asayake]

7 minutes ago, Hojo said:

@Asayake Why cant infinity just be red? If there is nothing else but red?

What if this entire time youve been alive your POV was just red and you never learned a language and were just sitting there. The entire universe would be red to you. You would have no concepts of other people for there to be other people to experience other things.

 

Infinity can't just be red unless red is the exact same thing as infinity, in which case red is not finite by definition but just infinity appearing as red, a learned language is irrelevant for this distinciton. Elliott said every scenario happens and then I asked what about the scenario that is non infinity because that clearly shows that if every scenario happens, then non infinite scenarios also have to happen, these can't be contained within infinity because they're per definition not infinity. As such every scenario doesn't happen. Free will and determinism can't happen at the same time, you can claim that determinism is happening and that it takes the appearance of free will but not that free will and determinism both are true because they contradict each other. The idea of free will is that you can choose your path forward, you can choose how you influence things and it's not predetermined beyond your control. 

[Hojo]

Red is the exact same thing as infinity.

[Asayake]

Just now, Hojo said:

Red is the exact same thing as infinity.

In which case my point is that if that's how you define reality then determinism and free will can't be true at the same time.

[Hojo]

@Asayake yes they cant because that is contradictive. You cant say red is blue. Can it be? Only because you were fed experience of blue blue is a memory. Once blue fades and red remains and you forget blue was a thing its not and never was. Blue becomes infinity or nothing. And red represents infinity.

So you can also say that this is wrong and when infinity is only red that red is the only thing infinity isn't at that time.

Edited 22 minutes ago by Hojo

[Asayake]

Just now, Hojo said:

@Asayake yes they cant because that is contradictive.

Then we agree. I never said that infinity can't be red, I just said infinity can't be finite. I accept the idea that infinity could appear as red and that red being something finite is an illusion. But my point is just that something actually being finite is contradictive to true infinity. At the same time, Elliott used infinity to collapse the difference between free will and everything being predetermined, which I argue doesn't work because if everything genuinely happens, in other words if free will and reality being predetermined both are true, then infinity has to contain finite scenarios, and that's contradictive to what infinity means.

[Hojo]

@Asayake then the entirety of life is what infinity cannot be and once the moment is over infinity can contain it.

Infinity cannot contain the present moment. But it can contain the past and future as long as you dont think about it.

Edited 5 minutes ago by Hojo