Thoughts on speed dating?

[Valach]

Just now, LordFall said:

Ego like being offended at the need to get better and that other people are having a better dating and social life than you.

Sure I think it can serve for validation in an unhealthy way but also dating and having beautiful and great women in your life is well great. 

Why do you default to "manipulation" others into giving you validation? Social skills are learned. When you're born you can't speak and can't communicate effectively; are you saying this is the peak of human existence?

To me I've enjoyed life more and more the more I connect to other people and by that I mostly mean interesting men to talk business with and cool women to date/work on projects with. I think I'm more than extreme than most in that area being an INTP but in general I think pretty much everyone wants people they value in their life. If you don't have that right now you're only choice is to get out of your comfort zone and try new things and get better at the things you like and enjoy so that you have more of a scale in it. 

 

I am not offended by that. We have been there already in other topics. I went through the journey just like many of my friends. This desire is just stemming from bad childhood experiences and lack of self esteem, nothing.

What else but manipulation is this? Sure, you can learn social skills a little bit. Though I have my opinions on that, but that is deeper topic. But at the end of the day whenever you act some way to get something from the other party, you are manipulating. When you surpress your bad sides that are unattractive in your opinion, that is text book manipulation just like lying about your job, intentions etc..

I agree with the connection. But connection is not about winning people over. It is about absolute vulnerability. And it start with a self connection firstly - with your inner child and the needs it has. 

[Raze]

44 minutes ago, LordFall said:

My idea to innovate on the model would be to make it heavily feedback and data based. So you go let's say you sit down with 12 women for 5 minutes afterwards you get a rating on your appearance and conversation skills separately out of 10. Then you can test out different ways of styling yourself and work on your conversation skills and get feedback on it. For $50 seems worth it and if you'd do it 10 times you'd get a lot of value out of that $500 and meeting 120 women. I don't think actual speed dating events do this though from what I'm gathering.

 

Most people aren’t interested in changing or trying different ways of being 

[LordFall]

@Valach Meeting people's needs and desires is not manipulation. It's allowing them to live the life they want to live. The default aspect of life is a barren field. I guess in an ultimate form that can satisfy you but humans like to build constructs and we now have a global economy in it. If you become a financially abundant man with a great and fun lifestyle you have much more to offer than someone who's broke without resources. That's as real as it gets. 

You don't need to do that, I see homeless people in relationships but once again to praise that as the peak of existence is a bit silly. Competition in the economy and in dating is part of the human experience that. To try to invalidate that entirely to me sounds like spiritual bypassing. 

I didn't mean to say you in particular, I appreciate you and the discussions we've had in the past couple weeks. They are important subjects to talk about and figure out. 

@Raze I think people do wanna change otherwise you wouldn't see so much hate on social media. When people see others living the life they wanna life they get angry because they want it too. I think social media has done a good job of globalizating humanity and now we should work to give everyone a chance to experience the life they wanna live. 

Edited 6 hours ago by LordFall

[Valach]

@LordFall I can share a story regarding the manipulation and being vulnerable.

I went on a date couple of months ago with a woman I was attracted to. Funnily enough I met her at one of the speed dating events. The date was "going well", we were vibing, we clicked and she was clearly attracted to me.

At some point during the date she asked me "how do you do it that you are so confident, have you always been like that"?

I could have rode this wave of validation and "manipulate" it into my gain. But I stopped and said to myself "lets be fucking real". And then I responded something like: "You know, I am actually not that confident. Couple of minutes ago you talked about how you are attracted to gym guys with great bodies. And I am not one (I am quite skinny). And now I feel inadequate for you." And I said that full well knowing that it is not the "correct" thing to say. That it is not attractive. And actually it made us connect even more - but that is not the point. The really satisfying thing was the self connection to my inner self I felt in the moment. That no matter the reaction I stay connected to myself and honor the stuff that is going on in me and express it freely.

This is really in my opinion the road towards true connections and towards healthy self esteem. Not the performative pickup bullshit.

[Valach]

8 minutes ago, LordFall said:

@Valach Meeting people's needs and desires is not manipulation. It's allowing them to live the life they want to live. The default aspect of life is a barren field. I guess in an ultimate form that can satisfy you but humans like to build constructs and we now have a global economy in it. If you become a financially abundant man with a great and fun lifestyle you have much more to offer than someone who's broke without resources. That's as real as it gets. 

You don't need to do that, I see homeless people in relationships but once again to praise that as the peak of existence is a bit silly. Competition in the economy and in dating is part of the human experience that. To try to invalidate that entirely to me sounds like spiritual bypassing. 

I didn't mean to say you in particular, I appreciate you and the discussions we've had in the past couple weeks. They are important subjects to talk about and figure out. 

I am not dennying that increasing your real or percieved value does not bring benefits of getting the attention of others. I am simply saying that it is based on faulty premises that you need others in some ways. You do not. You only need that when your childhood was not great (which is almost everyone) and you feel like you need to gain your value by work achievments, getting woman etc. 

 

Essentially it all boils down to - instead of asking yourself how, ask yourself why. And it requires a lot of self awareness to answer that question. 

Edited 6 hours ago by Valach

[LordFall]

13 minutes ago, Valach said:

I am not dennying that increasing your real or percieved value does not bring benefits of getting the attention of others. I am simply saying that it is based on faulty premises that you need others in some ways. You do not. You only need that when your childhood was not great (which is almost everyone) and you feel like you need to gain your value by work achievments, getting woman etc. 

You literally do need others though. See that's what I mean by spiritual bypassing it's a niche idea but not true. Humans are a collective being, your individuality is an illusion. You can't grow your own food let alone birth yourself without others. 

 

16 minutes ago, Valach said:

@LordFall I can share a story regarding the manipulation and being vulnerable.

I went on a date couple of months ago with a woman I was attracted to. Funnily enough I met her at one of the speed dating events. The date was "going well", we were vibing, we clicked and she was clearly attracted to me.

At some point during the date she asked me "how do you do it that you are so confident, have you always been like that"?

I could have rode this wave of validation and "manipulate" it into my gain. But I stopped and said to myself "lets be fucking real". And then I responded something like: "You know, I am actually not that confident. Couple of minutes ago you talked about how you are attracted to gym guys with great bodies. And I am not one (I am quite skinny). And now I feel inadequate for you." And I said that full well knowing that it is not the "correct" thing to say. That it is not attractive. And actually it made us connect even more - but that is not the point. The really satisfying thing was the self connection to my inner self I felt in the moment. That no matter the reaction I stay connected to myself and honor the stuff that is going on in me and express it freely.

This is really in my opinion the road towards true connections and towards healthy self esteem. Not the performative pickup bullshit.

I think that's a cool story. I don't think you have to be vulnerable all the time though and there is a time and place for it. You are also a multifaceted being, I'm sure there are other ways that you did feel confident in that evening just that particular comment threw you off. Perhaps in general you're confident that women react well to you. So you can lean in her her and say want me to tell you the secret, "beautiful women like you" and then riff off of that. If you're not feeling that emotion at all in the moment and read it on a forum and try it I'll agree with you then that falls more into manipulation. As a whole though human beings feel different things and express them in different ways and have different skill level in doing so.

Is writing a song manipulation? Some people when they are sad mope on it and do nothing about it. Some other write a song and then publish it on Youtube. One is more valuable to others than the other. The more you do valuable things for others the more people will value you. To what extent you seek this is a great question to figure out and I agree with you that getting to the bottom of your why is important to not be continuously seeking. 

You can value and accept yourself that's great and necessary but unless you want live in a forest learning to be hunter and have the funds to build a self-sufficient homestead life is a collective experience. 

Edited 6 hours ago by LordFall

[Valach]

7 minutes ago, LordFall said:

You literally do need others though. See that's what I mean by spiritual bypassing it's a niche idea but not true. Humans are a collective being, your individuality is an illusion. You can't grow your own food let alone birth yourself without others. 

 

Those are very basic needs. I do need others in the sense that I would perish otherwise. But I do not need the validation of woman. You do need some sort of tribe and close connections to thrive, but you do not get that by manipulating. You get that by being truly yourself and the right people will gravitate towards you.

9 minutes ago, LordFall said:

I think that's a cool story. I don't think you have to be vulnerable all the time though and there is a time and place for it. You are also a multifaceted being, I'm sure there are other ways that you did feel confident in that evening just that particular comment threw you off. Perhaps in general you're confident that women react well to you. So you can lean in her her and say want me to tell you the secret, "beautiful women like you" and then riff off of that. If you're not feeling that emotion at all in the moment and read it on a forum and try it I'll agree with you then that falls more into manipulation. As a whole though human beings feel different things and express them in different ways and have different skill level in doing so.

Is writing a song manipulation? Some people when they are sad mope on it and do nothing about it. Some other write a song and then publish it on Youtube. One is more valuable to others than the other. The more you do valuable things for others the more people will value you. To what extent you seek this is a great question to figure out and I agree with you that getting to the bottom of your why is important to not be continuously seeking. 

You can value and accept yourself that's great and necessary but unless you want live in a forest learning to be hunter and have the funds to build a self-sufficient homestead life is a collective experience. 

Manipulation is not so much about what you do or what you say. It is about why you say/do these things. If you say that out of wanting to provoke some sort of reaction, that is a manipulation. If you say that as a genuine expression of yourself, then that is fine. You need to cultivate strong inner connection first to even recognize it in yourself.

[LordFall]

Right when worded that way I totally agree with you. It's important to build an authentic life and not just react to childhood trauma. Personally I find building social circles and working on attracting more and hotter women quite fulfilling and interesting at the point of life I'm at now. I'm sure in a few years that will have evolved into something new and even more interesting for example helping humanity solve their dating issues with my startup idea. 

What type of event or pursuit would you say has most helped your dating life so far? Like if you consider everything you've tried. For me it was probably changing cities and immersing myself with people that had the results I wanted. 

[Valach]

6 minutes ago, LordFall said:

Right when worded that way I totally agree with you. It's important to build an authentic life and not just react to childhood trauma. Personally I find building social circles and working on attracting more and hotter women quite fulfilling and interesting at the point of life I'm at now. I'm sure in a few years that will have evolved into something new and even more interesting for example helping humanity solve their dating issues with my startup idea. 

What type of event or pursuit would you say has most helped your dating life so far? Like if you consider everything you've tried. For me it was probably changing cities and immersing myself with people that had the results I wanted. 

hmmm, hard to say. I did change cities but at 19 right after finishing high school so it is not really measurable. Doing cold approach pickup with dedicating coach did give me some benefits, but the biggest one by far is doing a true inner work and spiritual practices related to that. Nothing even compares. But I am quite new to the path.

Edited 5 hours ago by Valach

[LordFall]

Cool that makes sense thanks for sharing. Are you based in India? Sorry if that's wrong I think I read you write that or somewhere else. If so that's pretty lucky it's a cool country I wanna visit soon. A lot of different big cities to try as well and Indian women are very beautiful. 

[Valach]

I live in Central Europe.

[LordFall]

Very cool, Europe is nice as well. I've been to France and the UK but I was a teenager so mostly played Pokemon on my 3ds. I wanna go back as an adult and enjoy what it has to offer. Have you been to Italy? I wanna check out a few of the cities here. I tried dining club events in Canada and we did a pasta challenge for a bit but we had to stop because the pasta was so bad it ruined my mood at the events trying to review it. 

[Valach]

3 minutes ago, LordFall said:

Very cool, Europe is nice as well. I've been to France and the UK but I was a teenager so mostly played Pokemon on my 3ds. I wanna go back as an adult and enjoy what it has to offer. Have you been to Italy? I wanna check out a few of the cities here. I tried dining club events in Canada and we did a pasta challenge for a bit but we had to stop because the pasta was so bad it ruined my mood at the events trying to review it. 

Never been. Would love to in the future

[LordFall]

Fuck it I talked to one of my business partners, we're gonna organize a speed dating in Toronto a month from now to test it out. I'll let you guys know how it goes. Really excited I think I'll learn a lot in the process. I think there is a big potential to help the dating scene, it's a disaster worldwide so each time I get pulled away from the dating industry I feel called back to contribute to it.