the biggest flaw in the nonduality teachings

[Breakingthewall]

3 minutes ago, Olaf said:

@James123 even if everything is one, that doesn't mean you don't have a body, mind, organism that wants to survive, called ego. Ego is in resistance towards dying continuously, try to kill an insect and see how it defends itself or runs, flies away, we are not any better then that, thinking your above that is only arrogance or a serious suicidal tendency, because if you were above that, you would be dead. So to claim your one with God is only partly true, partly your stuck with an ego, body, mind till you die, before death you can only have a momentary escape, till you need to work and pay your bills or take care of other responsibilities, like going to the toilet and taking a giant shit.

Obviously, and denying it is absurd. Spirituality consists of opening yourself to your total nature from the relative form that is happening now, which is biased by the need for self-preservation, not in denying the existence of that form. This is merely a mental shift that doesn't lead to true openness.

[James123]

9 minutes ago, Olaf said:

@James123 even if everything is one, that doesn't mean you don't have a body, mind, organism that wants to survive, called ego. Ego is in resistance towards dying continuously, try to kill an insect and see how it defends itself or runs, flies away, we are not any better then that, thinking your above that is only arrogance or a serious suicidal tendency, because if you were above that, you would be dead. So to claim your one with God is only partly true, partly your stuck with an ego, body, mind till you die, before death you can only have a momentary escape, till you need to work and pay your bills or take care of other responsibilities, like going to the toilet and taking a giant shit.

Body is way smart, doesn't need you, and actually you were/are/will never in it. You don't survive, body is already works as an survival mechanicsm. Firstly, breathing, which is survival itself.

And any thinking, action, experience, feelings belongs to body and mind. 

Everything is one, two, God, oneness, non duality, two duality, good, bad, etc... all belongs to mind. Not You. 

You are none of it.

[Mellowmarsh]

50 minutes ago, Olaf said:

I still don't see a solution for making nonduality free from narcissism (god complex and spiritual ego) if anyone has an answer let me know

Nondual nature will never be free from narcissism spiritual ego because unity has no other choice than to choose to separate. 
Unless anyone posting here is claiming they are not a human. Then that’s the complete madness right there.

 

The human experience is intrinsically designed to perceive a split between self and world. From this perspective, the "dream" is the egoic belief that we are isolated individuals rather than expressions of a single, unified reality.

You might not have chosen to be consciousness, but you have chosen to be human as a perceived concept known.

You don’t go around talking to unity, you talk to separation. You talk to others because you choose to perceive separation. No human ever says to another human , oh wait, I’m not talking to another human I’m just talking to another consciousness who is not separate from me. It’s stupid, of course they are separate from you. This nondual stuff is absolute BS

This is the lunacy of non dualism…. Humans were never meant to wake up from the dream of separation otherwise it would be game over, even for unity. The whole point of unity is to separate. Otherwise it would just be one big blob of what exactly? Exactly.

 

The separation is designed by unity so unity could play the game. There’s no game without two players, it’s always going to be a two player game.

This perspective argues that separation is a chosen, or inherent aspect of the human game rather than a mistake to be fixed. 

That’s why it’s totally bonkers for two awakened or enlightened characters to even attempt to talk to each other when they already know there’s no one there in those bodies to bounce off. Those who do wake up should keep it to themselves, and keep quiet. Talking about it just puts them back in duality, the very state they say is illusory.

 

No, we’re not meant to wake up, that’s the whole damn point of the game.

[Breakingthewall]

10 minutes ago, James123 said:

Body is way smart, doesn't need you, and actually you were/are/will never in it. You don't survive, body is already works as an survival mechanicsm. Firstly, breathing, which is survival itself.

And any thinking, action, experience, feelings belongs to body and mind. 

Everything is one, two, God, oneness, non duality, two duality, good, bad, etc... all belongs to mind. Not You. 

You are none of it.

What we call "you" is the body mind structure. There is a part of that you, the self, that is created by multiple neurological paths by evolution, that is a center that decides and wants, that appears as the center of the experience, in order to create more complex structures, that's what reality does when it's possible 

[Olaf]

@Breakingthewall so would you say inherently spirituality is just a form of escapism? 

[Olaf]

@Mellowmarsh so you would say we should all just keep quiet?

 

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Olaf said:

@Breakingthewall so would you say inherently spirituality is just a form of escapism? 

No, there is true spirituality, the movement that you can do to opening yourself to your unlimited nature. It's a movement that implies the dissolution of the limits of the mind and the openess of your heart, that is closed by our inevitable bias through self preservation. 

But non duality is nothing of this, it's just a mental shift to scape from reality 

Edited 1 hour ago by Breakingthewall

[Olaf]

@James123 just cause you are not it, doesn't mean you don't have any responsibility of it. You might have a child, you are not the child, but you still have responsibility over that child, your not just gonna let it die. You have an ego, you don't are it, so your still responsible for it at the end of the day. Thats my perspective.

[Someone here]

You are conflating what is factual with what you consider escapism. These two should not be mixed. If there is a body here..then there is a body here. Likewise… if it is true that there is no separate self within the body.. no ego.. no free will..no inherent purpose to life..or no fixed action step  such as ‘this is what you must do in life ‘ then those claims are either true or false on their own terms. Whether you personally deem them escapism is irrelevant to their truth value.

 

[Olaf]

@Breakingthewall so what would be, according to you, the practice for people? and how to prevent God complex issues in spiritual communities and spiritual leaders?

[Olaf]

@Someone here by an escape I mean its not a permanent state as you can access it in silence or in some moments during the day, but when responsibilities are demanded from you, you have to return back to the relative world. Aka escaping responsibilities, just like entertainment is escaping your responsibilities or even sleep can be an escape. Something to take you away from your relative world and your problems or responsibilities, that is why when you return from your meditation your still broke, and that manifestation meditation didn't bring you a million euros  

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, Olaf said:

@Breakingthewall so what would be, according to you, the practice for people? and how to prevent God complex issues in spiritual communities and spiritual leaders?

All non-dualistic spirituality is a farce and worthless; it doesn't liberate, it closes you off, it's better to forget it totally.

True spirituality is an act of surrendering the self to the totality, an act of opening the heart to immensity that includes accepting destruction and suffering. This is an act of total humility, and it is precisely the opposite of what non-duality preaches: nothing is real, only you, consciousness, is real and can't be touched. It is absolute narcissism, anti-spirituality. 

Non duality say: the reality is a duality between the consciousness, that is the truth, and the form, that is falsehood, maya. You, the consciousness, are dreaming it, it is not real. This is the definition of narcissism.

[James123]

13 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

What we call "you" is the body mind structure. There is a part of that you, the self, that is created by multiple neurological paths by evolution, that is a center that decides and wants, that appears as the center of the experience, in order to create more complex structures, that's what reality does when it's possible 

 

9 minutes ago, Olaf said:

@James123 just cause you are not it, doesn't mean you don't have any responsibility of it. You might have a child, you are not the child, but you still have responsibility over that child, your not just gonna let it die. You have an ego, you don't are it, so your still responsible for it at the end of the day. Thats my perspective.

Find yourself in the body. Point it.

What "you" is worrying, stress, anger, because you is accumulation of controlling and expectation mechanism. Therefore, suffering is inevitable. 

When I had realize that I am the motha fucking virus, body / mind is already perfect / magnificent, my attachment to thoughts, therefore me was so called ended. Actually, it is not an end, because end, start, begin etc.. all are within field of thoughts.

So, you are the fucking virus, selfish pussy. 

Let the body go. Only then attachment to thoughts ends. Therefore, any words becomes neither relevant nor irrelevant. 

[Someone here]

2 minutes ago, Olaf said:

@Someone here by an escape I mean its not a permanent state as you can access it in silence or in some moments during the day, but when responsibilities are demanded from you, you have to return back to the relative world. 
 

what is “it” which is not a permanent state ? Sorry I don’t understand the context I just now saw the thread . And also did you understand what I just told you in the previous reply ?

[Mellowmarsh]

18 minutes ago, Olaf said:

@Mellowmarsh so you would say we should all just keep quiet?

 

When we already understand nonduality, it’s pointless to talk to others who also understand it.  It would be like talking to dead people.

 

Its not even wise to talk about nonduality to people who do not understand nonduality either, I mean why would someone who doesn’t understand non dualism want to be told they don’t exist the way they think they do? Its pointless.

 

Thats why I think we should just keep it to ourselves. Nondual forums just incite tension and conflict, it’s just madness, and such a bad idea. 
 Spirituality and nondual conversations are the epitome of stupidity, in my opinion. 

 

[Olaf]

@Someone here are you saying escapism is not an escape? 

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, James123 said:

Find yourself in the body. Point it.

I am the body, I can point it.

3 minutes ago, James123 said:

What "you" is worrying, stress, anger, because you is accumulation of controlling and expectation mechanism. Therefore, suffering is inevitable. 

That's just a facet of you, necessary for survival 

4 minutes ago, James123 said:

So, you are the fucking virus, selfish pussy. 

No, the controlling self is absolutely necessary. Nowadays society if protective, but even so, you need control, visión, understanding and projection in order to not having a life that is horrible, like being a homeless rotten by rats in winter without no one who matters if you are alive or dead. I choose to avoid it 

[Olaf]

@Mellowmarsh I am not really in those forums so I have no idea, unless you mean this forum. I think its good to clairify some things with others tho, even if they get it wrong, its good to express some thoughts yourself you know.

[Someone here]

2 minutes ago, Olaf said:

@Someone here are you saying escapism is not an escape? 

No . I’m saying this :

19 minutes ago, Someone here said:

You are conflating what is factual with what you consider escapism. These two should not be mixed. If there is a body here..then there is a body here. Likewise… if it is true that there is no separate self within the body.. no ego.. no free will..no inherent purpose to life..or no fixed action step  such as ‘this is what you must do in life ‘ then those claims are either true or false on their own terms. Whether you personally deem them escapism is irrelevant to their truth value.

 

 

[James123]

8 minutes ago, Olaf said:

@Someone here by an escape I mean its not a permanent state as you can access it in silence or in some moments during the day, but when responsibilities are demanded from you, you have to return back to the relative world. Aka escaping responsibilities, just like entertainment is escaping your responsibilities or even sleep can be an escape. Something to take you away from your relative world and your problems or responsibilities, that is why when you return from your meditation your still broke, and that manifestation meditation didn't bring you a million euros  

Entire path, spirituality or being dedicated to Truth is leaving the body/mind in it's own destiny. 

No matter what happens, not controlling, not involving, simply Being.

And slow by slow, body / mind takes over the control and you die. 

After that, body is it's own but you are not in, not there 😂

This is what enlightenment is 😂 literally, this is it. 

And You always what You are, same as before physical birth. 😂