the biggest flaw in the nonduality teachings

[Olaf]

Most teachings around spirituality are a bit the same. Basically `I AM` resting in that awareness, isness. You are God, that is the teaching, you are awareness itself, not the body, mind or ego. Although this is quite factual, in the sense that you are connected to God and that when you rest in awareness and be in your being state, that you access higher consciousness. That doesn´t mean now you have no human limitations anymore. The problem with the teachings as of now, is that it is an easy bypassing of all human things. Not just making money, what is an obvious one, but what I see in spiritual people I have been around that follow these teachings, is that everything is a sign, everything is connected, everything is one, everything is perfect, SO I don´t have to focus on this or that or sus or so. You don't have to work on that trauma, you don't have to work on your narcissistic or codependent tendencies, you don't have to focus on improving your communication or relationships. You don´t have to focus on making money, cause its ego and your not the ego you are I AM. Yet God is not gonna make money for you, make you survive, that is all up to you as a human self, because even tho you ARE in reality not human, you still HAVE a human body, a human mind, a human ego to protect the mind and body. 

So the problem I see with the teachings around nonduality is that they create a sweet escape, but that some things in life shouldn´t be escaped, unless you want to escape life altogether and die, but that is not what I think most people want. So as long as you want to live in this body, you will have to acknowledge that you do have a mind, body, ego and that its going nowhere anytime soon. So we can care all the time if I come from ego or not, but that is a pointless game, cause you are coming from ego anyways, even when we think we don´t, the escapism towards nonduality in itself is ego, you think God, consciousness itself would care if you are enlightened or not? No only you care, because you don't want to suffer, you want to escape, you want to not deal with your problems. And if everything is already perfect, one, God, then what is the point of dealing with your problems, you have transcended them and your human life doesn't matter anyway, cause your God. See, that is how nonduality fools you, it makes your ego, human body and human mind things to be transcended instead of to work with. 

In fact, it will deem it as evil, but if it were truly evil, then we should all kill ourselves now. What I think is more evil is act like you're dead and just living in the "I AM" your now consciousness and then being unaware that you have a body, mind and ego. Then you get some type of God complex where you think no human limitations matter to you, you are above that petty game, you are now high conscious, you can just attract it, manifest what you want, you can just call upon angels or your higher self for anything you need. I AM NOT GONNA DO ANYTHING, the universe provides! Well, even if that La La Land story were true, you would still be stuck in this human vessel, you still have to go to the toilet, go do the dishes, get groceries, eat, sleep, repeat, all that human stuff. You think a God makes grocery lists?? 

So I think its time for everyone, including me, to get off their high horse, just cause your having the capability to access higher consciousness, doesn't mean you are a walking, living God and that now with your newfound enlightenment you are invincible. You cannot even get to talk with a toothache, a small tiny tooth could trouble you all week and still you believe you are a walking living God? If you get sick, you have to go to the hospital to get help, you couldn't help yourself and you claim to be a God? No, we can access God, connect to God, be one with God, but if you truly wanted to be one with God all the time, in every moment, you should be dead as only a dead men is truly without ego, body and mind. 

[Ziran]

1 hour ago, Olaf said:

So the problem I see with the teachings around nonduality is that they create a sweet escape,

It's returning to the womb.  It's blissful and alone. 

[Olaf]

@Ziran is fictional returning, real returning is dying. You are a human being,  not just being, you have a human part which is overlooked in nonduality teachings that leads to all kinds of problems.

[Mellowmarsh]

2 hours ago, Olaf said:

Most teachings around spirituality are a bit the same. Basically `I AM` resting in that awareness, isness. You are God, that is the teaching, you are awareness itself, not the body, mind or ego. Although this is quite factual, in the sense that you are connected to God and that when you rest in awareness and be in your being state, that you access higher consciousness. That doesn´t mean now you have no human limitations anymore. The problem with the teachings as of now, is that it is an easy bypassing of all human things. Not just making money, what is an obvious one, but what I see in spiritual people I have been around that follow these teachings, is that everything is a sign, everything is connected, everything is one, everything is perfect, SO I don´t have to focus on this or that or sus or so. You don't have to work on that trauma, you don't have to work on your narcissistic or codependent tendencies, you don't have to focus on improving your communication or relationships. You don´t have to focus on making money, cause its ego and your not the ego you are I AM. Yet God is not gonna make money for you, make you survive, that is all up to you as a human self, because even tho you ARE in reality not human, you still HAVE a human body, a human mind, a human ego to protect the mind and body. 

So the problem I see with the teachings around nonduality is that they create a sweet escape, but that some things in life shouldn´t be escaped, unless you want to escape life altogether and die, but that is not what I think most people want. So as long as you want to live in this body, you will have to acknowledge that you do have a mind, body, ego and that its going nowhere anytime soon. So we can care all the time if I come from ego or not, but that is a pointless game, cause you are coming from ego anyways, even when we think we don´t, the escapism towards nonduality in itself is ego, you think God, consciousness itself would care if you are enlightened or not? No only you care, because you don't want to suffer, you want to escape, you want to not deal with your problems. And if everything is already perfect, one, God, then what is the point of dealing with your problems, you have transcended them and your human life doesn't matter anyway, cause your God. See, that is how nonduality fools you, it makes your ego, human body and human mind things to be transcended instead of to work with. 

In fact, it will deem it as evil, but if it were truly evil, then we should all kill ourselves now. What I think is more evil is act like you're dead and just living in the "I AM" your now consciousness and then being unaware that you have a body, mind and ego. Then you get some type of God complex where you think no human limitations matter to you, you are above that petty game, you are now high conscious, you can just attract it, manifest what you want, you can just call upon angels or your higher self for anything you need. I AM NOT GONNA DO ANYTHING, the universe provides! Well, even if that La La Land story were true, you would still be stuck in this human vessel, you still have to go to the toilet, go do the dishes, get groceries, eat, sleep, repeat, all that human stuff. You think a God makes grocery lists?? 

So I think its time for everyone, including me, to get off their high horse, just cause your having the capability to access higher consciousness, doesn't mean you are a walking, living God and that now with your newfound enlightenment you are invincible. You cannot even get to talk with a toothache, a small tiny tooth could trouble you all week and still you believe you are a walking living God? If you get sick, you have to go to the hospital to get help, you couldn't help yourself and you claim to be a God? No, we can access God, connect to God, be one with God, but if you truly wanted to be one with God all the time, in every moment, you should be dead as only a dead men is truly without ego, body and mind. 

This is all flawed too.

There’s no original substrate behind reality. It’s turtles all the way down.

Information theories suggest that information is the most fundamental component of the universe. It’s not physical matter or energy.

 Oh yes, it seems all so real, well so does any movie upon a blank screen. The characters in the movie all look like the one viewing the movie, but none of the characters in the movie are real. They’re all just empty images appearing upon the empty blank imageless screen of consciousness which is “fundamental” and inherently unfindable and inexhaustible.

Welcome to the zombie jamboree. Of course a simulation would need to feel real or else nobody would take it seriously. 
 

[ [ "It from bit" is a phrase coined by physicist John Archibald Wheeler suggesting that every physical entity (the "it") derives its existence from information (the "bit")—specifically from binary yes-or-no answers to questions posed by measurement. It proposes that the physical universe is, at its core, created by information and observation rather than being composed solely of pre-existing matter. ]]

[Olaf]

@Mellowmarsh but can't you see how this would lead to endless misuse? It's not so much if consciousness, God is real or not, that isn't even what I am saying. The thing I am saying is that you are still having to take responsibility over this body, mind and ego. If you decide to smash your body to the ground and become one with God, that is your choice. As your living in this world, having the idea that you are God, what partly is true, partly is a God complex, will lead to allot of problems as your in denial of an ego, body, mind that is still functioning with or without enlightenment or a spiritual awakening, as much as it might be a simulation, when I punch you in the stomach, your non duality talk goes out of the window and you punch me right back or run away, that is just natural ego, body, mind reaction. The question is not if consciousness is real or not; the only question is, is teaching this leading humanity to a better place? To me, no, the teachings have to change and take care of this one flaw, how exactly that is what I am still contemplating. 

[Mellowmarsh]

10 minutes ago, Olaf said:

but can't you see how this would lead to endless misuse?

IDK, and cannot speak for others, but I’m only interested in what’s behind the image of me that makes me me, so far I haven’t been able to find anything of any significant substance, and I’m personally fine with my conclusion.

For me, that’s the hard problem of consciousness that’s never been solved. And if God is consciousness then God is never going to reveal itself to an imaginary other.

[Olaf]

@Mellowmarsh fair enough if your interest is for being in the being state and doing self inquiry I am not here to bring you of that path. 

I am more looking for a pathway that doesn't allow corruption to take over as is being done right now with nonduality as claiming yourself to be God, maybe not for you, but for others could lead to big problems, aka God complex or as some might call it spiritual ego and in denial of having a body, mind and ego.

To me, consciousness is real, everything is one, I would agree with all of that, its more about a flaw in the teachings that can lead to misuse thats my concern.

[Mellowmarsh]

2 minutes ago, Olaf said:

To me, consciousness is real, everything is one, I would agree with all of that, its more about a flaw in the teachings that can lead to misuse thats my concern.

I’ve already agreed, teaching this stuff is flawed, and so is every spoken word that is pointing to nonduality.

 

If fact silence is the only real teaching for me, in silence every instruction is revealed, every knowing what to do or how to do is revealed, so I trust only the silence to guide my conscience. So far it’s never let me down. 

[Ziran]

1 hour ago, Olaf said:

@Ziran is fictional returning, real returning is dying. You are a human being,  not just being, you have a human part which is overlooked in nonduality teachings that leads to all kinds of problems.

The human part is dying and returning.  I hear you.

[Mellowmarsh]

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNRsnyx4U/

[No1Here2c]

1 hour ago, Mellowmarsh said:

I’ve already agreed, teaching this stuff is flawed, and so is every spoken word that is pointing to nonduality.

If fact silence is the only real teaching for me, in silence every instruction is revealed, every knowing what to do or how to do is revealed, so I trust only the silence to guide my conscience.

Silence is Truth

[Olaf]

@Mellowmarsh yes I think that is already much better than following a teaching

[Mellowmarsh]

 

12 minutes ago, Olaf said:

@Mellowmarsh yes I think that is already much better than following a teaching

You’re welcome.

Nonduality teachers are all afflicted by the same terminal illness, they’re all either dying to die or they’re already dead.

( just kidding , it’s my quirky sense of humour) 😜 
So was the ticktok video. 

[caspex]

Just because zero equals infinity doesn't mean there aren't numbers in between.

[No1Here2c]

2 minutes ago, caspex said:

Just because zero equals infinity doesn't mean there aren't numbers in between.

Infinity is all of the numbers in between. & all of the numbers between those numbers. & all of the number between those ones too.

[caspex]

1 minute ago, No1Here2c said:

Infinity is all of the numbers in between. & all of the numbers between those numbers. & all of the number between those ones too.

Touché

[No1Here2c]

Just now, caspex said:

Touché

le frisson de la chasse

 

[Breakingthewall]

Non-dualistic spirituality is simply escapism. It tells you that your human reality is an illusion and that what you are is consciousness; in other words, it tells you that you must create a new mental map and that this is enlightenment.

For this, the main tool is Vipassana-style meditation, where you must observe your thoughts, which are maya, and thus identify with the observer, which is empty consciousness, what you truly are.

All of this is a mess that only creates spiritual narcissists who are impossible to deal with. It's better to have a drug addict or a workoholic friend than a non-dualist; they are more authentic.

[No1Here2c]

The escapism is all the differentiation you are caught up in.

[No1Here2c]

6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Im trapped with your mother in a hotel. Clown 

Good luck my friend. You may wind up sleeping for a very long time.

Wouldn't want to meet a black widow.

Edited 7 hours ago by No1Here2c