Wisdom is first order.

[Majed]

Leo likes to say that wisdom is second order, however from my contemplation, wisdom is first order, because the world is created with infinite wisdom. I think leo has yet to awaken to this, given how he talk about wisdom being second order. Both wisdom and intelligence are first order. You can say that everything is created with infinite wisdom, similar to how everything is created with infinite intelligence. They are two different facets of creation. 

Wisdom is at the being level, not just intelligence. 

[No1Here2c]

Im not sure the words are necessary

[No1Here2c]

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[No1Here2c]

What does it mean to be Awake?

[Xonas Pitfall]

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[No1Here2c]

@Xonas Pitfall

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[No1Here2c]

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[Xonas Pitfall]

@Majed

I just wish people would define, at least to some extent, what they mean when they say things.

If you say, “He is intelligent because he can make a lot of money, but he is wise because he understands how to make money and that there is more to life than that, so he focuses on spirituality,” then you’re basically defining wisdom as a more advanced form of intelligence. It reads context better, has more input, and uses intuition to make better decisions. Intelligence, in that case, is just working effectively within a given framework without really questioning it. So yeah, wisdom is superior.

But you could also argue it’s superior because it’s a broader form of intelligence, since it includes understanding the limits of the framework.

And if you define intelligence as pattern recognition, seeing through bias, and understanding truth, then wisdom already depends on intelligence. I am not sure it is even worth discussing at that point. It seems more like a semantics issue than an actual misunderstanding, but I could be wrong.

[Xonas Pitfall]

@No1Here2c

Spoiler

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Edited Thursday at 06:36 PM by Xonas Pitfall

[Willy Phallicus]

 

2 hours ago, No1Here2c said:

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[AtmanIsBrahman]

The way I understand it is that intelligence is the fundamental substrate of the universe. Without intelligence, nothing would exist or function at all.

Intelligence is what creates a human being. Then, the human being can have better or worse outlooks on how to live, what is important, etc. —and we call that wisdom. Intelligence is needed first, then wisdom can exist. So intelligence is more fundamental.

[Ziran]

15 hours ago, Majed said:

wisdom is second order, however from my contemplation, wisdom is first order,

 

14 hours ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

I just wish people would define, at least to some extent, what they mean when they say things.

Wisdom is a type of cognition which is accurately associating this-and-that.  The classic example is choosing the correct key for a lock from a key ring with many keys.   When the individual is going through the keys looking for the proper one, if the cognition is slowed so that it can be studied, there are gaps, pauses, like little gasps, as the shape of the key in hand is compared to the **lacking** of the key which is needed.  Wisdom is the very specific accurate **lacking** within the mind of what is needed to fulfill the individual's desire.

Because wisdom is dependent on facts, the keyring and many keys in the example above, it cannot be first order.

[Ziran]

3 hours ago, AtmanIsBrahman said:

The way I understand it is that intelligence is the fundamental substrate of the universe

Can intelligence exist lacking any associations or relationships?

[AtmanIsBrahman]

11 hours ago, Ziran said:

Can intelligence exist lacking any associations or relationships?

I'm not sure. If we understand intelligence as an absolute, it becomes unclear what associations or relationships even are, because all these things break down at the absolute level.

[Ziran]

15 hours ago, AtmanIsBrahman said:

I'm not sure. If we understand intelligence as an absolute, it becomes unclear what associations or relationships even are, because all these things break down at the absolute level.

If ALL these things break down at the absolute level, then, the absolute should be excluded from this? 

If so, are there examples of "intelligence" which are in complete isolation from any relationships, associations, or attributes?  If intelligence, alone, is the fundamental stratum for reality, then, I would expect there to be examples of "intelligence" in isolation of any others.  I can't think of any.  Can you?

[Hojo]

Not knowing anything is first order. Its the base of reality. You have to have not know anything as a grounding to have wisdom.

Edited yesterday at 12:11 PM by Hojo

[Inliytened1]

On 4/30/2026 at 0:18 PM, Majed said:

Leo likes to say that wisdom is second order, however from my contemplation, wisdom is first order, because the world is created with infinite wisdom. I think leo has yet to awaken to this, given how he talk about wisdom being second order. Both wisdom and intelligence are first order. You can say that everything is created with infinite wisdom, similar to how everything is created with infinite intelligence. They are two different facets of creation. 

Wisdom is at the being level, not just intelligence. 

Wisdom is typically gained from experience.  But God has Infinite Wisdom simply because God is Infinity.  Awesome insight yes I would concur this is a facet of the Absolute.   Relative Wisdom is second order but Wisdom with a capital W is Absolute and is more than just the relative wisdom similar to relative love vs Absolute Love.