Anger is not always wrong

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Joseph Maynor definitely disagree.

You can be critical in assessment with discernment only, removing judgement. Judgement typically provokes the ego. 

Criticism tends to trigger anger when it hits at someones identity. 

Criticism can be received when it is not entangled with identity. Or we trust the others intentions IE in a good faith discussion.

I suppose it depends if it touches at identity. Which is why I propose criticism isn't always ego related. 

[Joseph Maynor]

Just now, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Joseph Maynor definitely disagree.

You can be critical in assessment with discernment only, removing judgement. Judgement typically provokes the ego. 

Criticism tends to trigger anger when it hits at someones identity. 

Criticism can be received when it is not entangled with identity. Or we trust the others intentions IE in a good faith discussion.

I suppose it depends if it touches at identity. Which is why I propose criticism isn't always ego related. 

Are you open to having a conversation about this?  I don't want to insist if it's a touchy subject.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

3 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Are you open to having a conversation about this?  I don't want to insist if it's a touchy subject.

As in, will I engage in good faith? Or course! 

Why else would I discuss this? If someone presents a good argument I will concede a point for sure. That's why I engage.

I am not so entrenched in an epistemic worldview like some here. Who insist, interject and correct incessantly. Clash of epistemic worldviews that ends up in constipated passive aggressive shit.

I can agree to disagree in peace. But I know the context we come from given all the recent forum shenanigans.

Edited 2 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Joseph Maynor]

1 hour ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

As in, will I engage in good faith? Or course! 

Why else would I discuss this? If someone presents a good argument I will concede a point for sure. That's why I engage.

I am not so entrenched in an epistemic worldview like some here. Who insist, interject and correct incessantly. 

I can agree to disagree in peace. But I know the context we come from given all the recent forum shenanigans.

The reason I ask is because emotions are already on shaky ground in spiritual enlightenment discussions.  For me to even say emotions go beyond ego is already going to be unpopular.  So this is an uphill battle for me.  It's not really a battle, but it could easily devolve into one, which I'm trying to avoid.

//

So now I'm suddenly prevented from responding?  This just proves my point.  I'm still open to a good faith discussion about anger.

Edited 49 minutes ago by Joseph Maynor

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Just now, Joseph Maynor said:

The reason I ask is because emotions are already on shaky ground in spiritual enlightenment discussions.  For me to even say emotions go beyond ego is already going to be unpopular.  So this is an uphill battle for me.  It's not really a battle, but it could easily devolve into one, which I'm trying to avoid.

You could also look at it as an opportunity to further refine your worldview regarding emotions / feelings. I suppose anger is both. 

Good questions prompt refinement and insight 😃

This forum in general is quite lacerated from emotion / feeling. Much more heady, ungrounded intellectualism here.

[Rishabh R]

@Natasha Tori Maru So separating one's identity from criticism and then adjusting based on the feedback is necessary for improving one's life based on feedback ?

Even though at times criticism tends to be based on misunderstanding and wrong assumptions.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

20 minutes ago, Rishabh R said:

@Natasha Tori Maru So separating one's identity from criticism and then adjusting based on the feedback is necessary for improving one's life based on feedback ?

I find when I am not attached to what is being criticised I do not get angry or react.

Just as an example - I submitted a claim for a lot of electrical work to a client. One of the consultants wrote an email back raising the lack of diligence in detailed costs and breakdowns. There were some hard words about levels of professionalism and diligence in the email. The consultant was having an emotional anger based reaction because the price was their design - so they felt partially responsible for the price. However, to avoid this feeling of shame for designing something of high price, he attempted to shame me by criticizing my work compiling the submission. I did not get angry due to his criticism. It was a poor submission and lacked detail. 

What the consultant did not know, was that I had no time for a detailed price; we had to begin the work asap prior to the ceiling being plastered. So the figures were lump sums simply to gain approval. The submission was not to my standard - but sometimes done is good enough under pressure. 

I gave the fella a call to clarify, and then later provided a detailed breakdown which was accepted.

I was heavily criticised in email with the client, superintended, architect, consultants and qty surveyor. I think most people would feel shame in my shoes, but I did not. Even if I had submitted sloppy work with no excuse. So what? I submitted crap work. I just take responsibility regardless of fault. Just need a solution. 

For me, my work is what I do. It isn't who I am. It doesnt make me more valid. I just ' am '. I perform when I need to under given restraints. I am not attached.

Similar to my thoughts & ideas. They happen, but I am not attached to them. Just ideas. 

The problem is, most people cannot detangle their emotions from their work. Their creation. They are entangled. 

I still experience being triggered at work, but much less so. A lot of deep, deep shame, trauma and emotional / feeling work has gone to get me into this space. Spirituality is beautiful for this process.

I have problems when people treat each other cruelly, or display deep, deep hubris / bigotry.

Edited 1 hour ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Rishabh R]

@Natasha Tori Maru I have been treated badly in the past several times by different people in general but I think that personal development/self-help work has been a large part in my emotional well being. For example - Holding the perspective in mind that in life people come and go no matter how rude or how good they are.

Also , I felt good by seeing the responsibility part of your response. In overcoming adversity radical responsibility instead of blame is extremely useful such as - I am responsible for everything in my experience no matter what the external circumstance.(This last line is not my own word but from a self-help book that I read 3 times from beginning to end).

Edited 1 hour ago by Rishabh R

[No1Here2c]

 

4 hours ago, No1Here2c said:

Anger is as a direct result of ego. Anger would not arise without a self to defend.

In complete selflessness what would there ever be to be upset about?

 

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Nobody behaves this way.  

What claims have I made about any individuals behavior?

I am simply pointing out the relative source of anger in conscious experience.

Edited 1 hour ago by No1Here2c