Have empathy for Pedophiles

[trenton]

3 hours ago, Willy Phallicus said:

Wtf is my empathy going to do to stop them from touching little kids in the most inappropriate way humanly possible?

@Willy Phallicus I have covered this thoroughly. By having empathy and understanding of sex offenders, we can see not only their humanity, but also the psychological mechanisms which led them to offending. This informs prevention in terms of how institutions should be structured, what oversight would prevent this, and what psychological vulnerabilities do we have that might make us prone to offending under specific circumstances. If they are fundamentally human, then given their set of psychological problems, others would likely behave in a similar way. This is not to excuse their actions, but practically this is important as demonizing people doesn't actually stop them. In fact, demonizing pedophiles makes them even less likely to seek help. This is why Germany has a very different policy for handling sex offender prevention compared to America. Germany is much more effective at protecting children by comparison because there are systems in place for people in that position to prevent harm.

Empathy for sex offenders is critical in criminology because it informs the models of criminal motive and therefore possible mechanisms for prevention and protection. I extend this to all kinds of offenders beyond just sex offenders. The moral outrage is tempting, but practically it is not the best way for protecting children. Seeing the full picture including the perpetrator's point of view is necessary if our goal is to protect the vulnerable be they children, women, men, or animals.

[trenton]

28 minutes ago, Human Mint said:

This reminds me that I live in a bubble. I am curious now and would like to get to know a true pedophile, that's the only way I could truly empathize with him (or her) and to understand more about it.

I am glad I don't want to fuck kids.

@Human Mint I have met a pedophile. This was a person in a mental healthcare center who was on medication for dissociative disorders. This was a trans woman and she said that she hates herself because she is a pedophile and she doesn't want to have these fantasies about kids. It makes her feel like a monster and she doesn't want to act on this sexual desire because of the harm it would cause. She seemed to have multiple personalities which is sometimes the result of childhood sexual abuse which both makes someone fear becoming a perpetrator and sometimes causes intrusive fantasies in which the power dynamic is reversed while having confused boundaries as to what is and isn't okay. Most pedophiles never act on their sexual desire because they also have empathy for the child and don't want to harm them.

I want to be clear that most child molesters are not pedophiles. Pedophilia is one disproportionate motive for offending, but it is not the most common psychological profile. The most common profile is the opportunistic or situational profile. This one is more common in institutional abuse and incest. Situational offenders often have the vulnerability of social isolation, such that if they have anti-social peers then there is a chance that their peers will change their perception of what behavior is acceptable, ultimately because they want belonging which can include illegal sexual activities. This happens in gangs and institutions. Most of those offenders are not pedophiles and their psychological vulnerabilities are systematically predictable given how the environment we created in this society has created social isolation. This is a vulnerability that would predictably increase the likelihood of someone becoming a sex offender. Dysfunctional families are an additional layer, leaving individuals more prone to peer pressure depending on what groups they end up with by chance.

The moral judgment is very simplistic and it obscures many important truths about human nature and what factors lead normal people to becoming child molesters. Remember, as human beings we have more in common with child molesters than we have differences. This is the core truth being denied when we demonize child molesters as if they are fundamentally different from us. Deep down, many of us are afraid to self-reflect and see the similarities which is actually important for prevention. Does anybody want to argue that as human beings, child molesters are fundamentally different from us? Are there really no similarities between child molesters and all other human beings in terms of how their psyche and circumstances shape their behavior? I have thoroughly deconstructed the monster narrative in a separate thread for those interested. Under sufficient scrutiny, the monster narrative simply does not hold under strong empiricism backed by a lot of research into sex offenders. They are not fundamentally evil, they are fundamentally human just like us.

[Willy Phallicus]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Empathy is not to stop pedophiles.

Thanks for agreeing with me.

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Empathy is to realize that demonizing any part of Reality is delusion.

Acknowledging that actions have consequences is not me demonizing reality.  

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Your are deluded and you don't know it yet. Empathy is the cure.

Empathy can go as rotten as any good intention.  As long as that's the case you're cure is as stable as a house of cards in a stiff breeze.  What people need are the hard truths.  For example, if you destroy your reality or markedly degrade it by being a ruthless and ambitious fuck it will be your fate to suffer its poverty.

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It is not pedophiles who need curing, it is your sick mind.

Ive done my homework.  Everyone else has to work out their own salvation.

[Willy Phallicus]

5 hours ago, trenton said:

s I have covered this thoroughly. By having empathy and understanding of sex offenders, we can see not only their humanity, but also the psychological mechanisms which led them to offending.

Let me be clear here.  I am not condemning the thought or feeling but the action.  People who feel that way but don't act on it and don't add to the misery in any way are good with me.  I have my own twisted fantasies so I don't judge.   

You can hate a particular race.  It only becomes racism when action follows thought and start acting it out.

Im not saying not to care for other people.  Even murderers should be treated humanely lest you become what you kill.  Im basically saying don't get invested in anyone's insanity.  You can't save people from themselves - you can't save the world.

[zazen]

Understanding something doesn’t erase moral judgement of that thing being wrong.

To empathise requires moral clarity - otherwise what are we empathising around?

The complexity is around understanding the mechanisms behind the act - and the solution for addressing it. There’s little complexity around certain acts itself being morally wrong. The disgust response most people have is a signal and shouldn’t be dismissed as “low conciousness”.

A child is harmed with cascading effects across society - that’s the foundational moral wrong. The perpetrator suffers their urge for this act - but that suffering is only meaningful enough to empathise with because of the first fact - that it is wrong. Societies drawn a red line to protect the child - which gives weight to perpetrators actions.

The flaw is treating the middle level (perpetrators act) in isolation, as if it floats free of the other two (child’s harm - societies norms) - but it doesn’t. The struggle (against the urge) only exists in relation to the harm it causes and norms around minimising that harm and violation.

Removing the moral clarity around the act minimises and normalises something that shouldn’t be. It’s just spiritual bypassing to seem holier than thou. Higher conciousness doesn’t mean suspending moral judgement - if anything judgements have more clarity - upon which understanding (mechanisms and solutions) are layered.

Edited 8 hours ago by zazen

[Willy Phallicus]

Yep, I am empathizing.

With the victims.

[Human Mint]

Great example of avoidance of truth.

[Willy Phallicus]

There is a real push to legitimize this and empathy is the hook to sell it like every other degenerate aim.

All fools inevitably lead themselves down to destruction.

 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

19 minutes ago, Willy Phallicus said:

There is a real push to legitimize this

Legitimise what?

[Willy Phallicus]

Pedophilia.

Normally I wouldnt give a crap but its like watching the same twilight zone episode on repeat.  Y'know, the usual when people start trying to formalize it and start concocting cockamamous theories and justifications based on specious reasoning and convoluted logic started or finished with calls for empathy, understanding and compassion.