I tried to explain enlightenment (awakening) to a Christian

[Someone here]

10 minutes ago, Nemra said:

more real.

exactly. If all forms come and go then there aren’t levels of realness . No such thing as “more real “ just because it’s high resolution and dreams are murky ..or because this is consistent and the other wacky . So what’s the metric of truth or realness then ? Not consistency or resolution but experience. If its experienced it’s true and the rest is obvious.

[Nemra]

I am generally afraid of losing stability in waking life because it can be taken away from me and my life depends on it.

However, my human stability is a limitation. In nightly dreams, the limitations are relatively broken.

Edited 3 hours ago by Nemra

[Someone here]

@Nemra there is eternal fight between fear and survival and truth . 

[Mellowmarsh]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

My sides lol you just opened a thread asking the question that Leo’s whole career is built upon . It’s like yeah interesting question maybe Leo should shoot a video about god i never heard him explaining god before 😂 

seriously get this right .. when I ask these maddening existential questions I’m doing it for the people who read not to me.  It’s like you rape your mind until you get what is actually true and what is not . What is being asleep and what is awake . What is the true self and what is the false self . What is mortal and what is immortal . 
 

This whole dream vs reality clout is hilarious to me .  There is no true experience and false experience . Experience is absolute. Either there is experience or there isn’t . If there is there is . If there isn’t there isn’t .

Okay, if that’s what you want. That’s fine by me.

[Mellowmarsh]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

My sides lol you just opened a thread asking the question that Leo’s whole career is built upon

Just for the record. I wanted to ask that question, is that okay with you?

So what’s so funny about that question that makes your sides lol ?

[Mellowmarsh]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

So when I wake up from this world I will wake up where ?  Go ahead .

You wake up from this world the minute you know the world exists. That’s where. 

[Someone here]

@Mellowmarsh 

1 minute ago, Mellowmarsh said:

Just for the record. I wanted to ask that question, is that okay with you?

So what’s so funny about that question that makes your sides lol ?

You’re seriously asking what is god ? You people watch the man’s lectures or just hang out on the forum ? 

[Mellowmarsh]

@Someone here wrote:”You’re seriously asking what is god ? You people watch the man’s lectures or just hang out on the forum ? “

———

I’ve watched Leo’s answers to the question. 
 

Now I’m asking the forum members what their answers are, I even included one of my own.

So again, what’s so side splittingly funny about that?

 

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Mellowmarsh

[Mellowmarsh]

1 hour ago, Nemra said:

Dreams at night don't happen in your brain when you're sleeping.

When you wake up from your sleep, you understand that what you experienced passed away. That's why you call it a dream.

From your nightly dream's perspective, your waking life is a dream, because it passes away when you sleep.

So, neither is more real than the other.

If your waking life appears to be more stable, it doesn't mean it's more real.

Excellent, well said. 

[Someone here]

@Mellowmarsh sister , chil. Ask till tomorrow. I’m not a bad person lol 😂. That’s just my style . You’re familiar with it .  You played dumb . When I said “ stop interfering with our own lives “ you said then why you keep plumbing toxic skepticism. I literally explained to you why I’m doing this . I’m well established in my own mind about all this stuff . I’m asking to shake you awake . I know whether there is god or not . I know whether life is a dream or not . It’s just i changed my style from asserting propositions like”  this is how it is “ to sneaking in questions which I already know the answers to , to help other members relate or understand . 

[Nemra]

There is one thing that needs to be added to the quality of nightly dreams: you know that you were the one who was dreaming and nobody else.

So, if your waking life is no different than nightly dreams in terms of realness (they are not different), then what is stopping you from saying that you are dreaming this reality?

[Mellowmarsh]

2 minutes ago, Nemra said:

There is one thing that needs to be added to the quality of nightly dreams: you know that you were the one who was dreaming and nobody else.

So, if your waking life is no different than nightly dreams in terms of realness (they are not different), then what is stopping you from saying that you are dreaming this reality?

Anything that you can be aware of is it’s own self evident proof that you are dreaming that which you are aware of. 

So you are quite correct, there’s no difference between waking life and nightly dream.

Awareness never sleeps anyway, awareness is always wide awake infinite aliveness.
Awareness has no image, only as a dream does an image appear known,  as an image of the imageless. 

[Someone here]

19 minutes ago, Nemra said:

then what is stopping you from saying that you are dreaming this reality?

What is meant by you are dreaming reality instead of experiencing reality ? What’s the practical difference? Are you just being edgy and nihilistic about it ? The word dream means those experiences you experience when you go to bed at night. Every time you say the word dream that’s what is being associated with in your mind . So by definition the waking life is not a dream because you just made the distinction between the two . There is a contrast.  This is really stretching my abilities to explain I want to explain it clearly . Let’s say fuck it we are dreaming . What is implied here ? Life is not real ? But that’s some fine horseshit cuz HERE IT IS ANYWAYS.  So dream or not you are going to live this thing . How will you  navigate your  way in it by believing it’s not real ?

[Mellowmarsh]

45 minutes ago, Nemra said:

So, if your waking life is no different than nightly dreams in terms of realness (they are not different), then what is stopping you from saying that you are dreaming this reality?

Exactly, and very clearly put.

There’s nothing stopping you from saying this because there’s nothing that started saying this. 
 

 

[Nemra]

50 minutes ago, Someone here said:

What is meant by you are dreaming reality instead of experiencing reality ?

As far as I understand, experiencing reality doesn't imply that you are literally creating reality.

But who is dreaming the nightly dreams? If you are the only one who is dreaming, then, logically, who else would create the dream?

50 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Are you just being edgy and nihilistic about it ?

I'm not trying to be.

50 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Every time you say the word dream that’s what is being associated with in your mind.

How else would I use the word "dream"?

50 minutes ago, Someone here said:

So by definition the waking life is not a dream because you just made the distinction between the two .

Yes and no.

I just undid a distinction in the level of actuality.

But of course, nightly dreams are different. I just said that they are more unstable.

50 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Life is not real ?

I didn't say that.

Edited 48 minutes ago by Nemra

[Nemra]

Also, notice that your waking life doesn't exist in your nightly dream. So, the "you" is more fundamental and doesn't depend on your waking life. Thus, by that logic, if people die, i.e., stop having their current experience or waking life, how could they stop being after their death?

Your waking life must be built on top of something true that doesn't depend on the waking life itself; otherwise, how could it be possible? One of the common denominators must be the "you", as I understand, which is not to say that what is happening as of now is fake or not actual.

Edited 7 minutes ago by Nemra

[Mellowmarsh]

20 minutes ago, Nemra said:

Also, notice that your waking life doesn't exist in your nightly dream. So, the "you" is more fundamental and doesn't depend in your waking life. Thus, by that logic, if people die, i.e., stop having their current experience or waking life, how could they stop being after their death?

Your waking life must be built on top of something true that doesn't depend on the waking life itself; otherwise, how could it be possible? One of the common denominators must be the "you", as I understand, which is not to say that what is happening as of now is fake or not actual.

You’re completely nailing this. Wow!

 

The distinction is purely conceptual. Inclusive of the dream so even the distinction is imaginary.

[Nemra]

23 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

You’re completely nailing this. Wow!

If I'm really nailing it, that's because my teacher is one of the best in the biz. 

Edited 2 minutes ago by Nemra