Why is Leo so anti conspracy theories?

[lennart]

From an epistemic point of view I don't understand Leos categorical rejection of conspiracy theories. I do understand that a lot of conspiracy theorists are epistemically bankrupt but that doesn't mean that conspiracy theories as a whole are stupid or wrong. A few core conspiracy theories are actually correct and I think it is ignorant to just disregard all of them.

@Leo Gura btw note that I am coming from a place of respect for your work thats why I am surprised about your position on that one.

[Cred]

You are both correct. A conspiracy theory is what happens when you have an autistic person who has not learned epistemic responsibility. That's it. There's no such thing as a Neurotypical that has the ability to come up with a conspiracy theory.

A conspiracy theory is basically what happens when you only have off the charts pattern recognition and other than that no real knowledge about reality.

So what a conspiracy theory is, is it is always a very real pattern in reality that is just interpreted the wrong way and therefore leads to the wrong conclusions.

So when examining a conspiracy theory, never make the mistake to ask what it says, ask instead what pattern it points to. when you don't see the pattern, this usually means that you have not looked hard enough or that your interpretation of reality is incomplete.

That's because for a conspiracy theory to be popular, a lot of people with superior pattern recognition have to agree with it in some way.

Here are a couple of examples.

• "birds are spies" of course this is wrong, but this doesn't change the fact that western people are being spied and Palantir exists.
• "the elites are Satanist" is wrong but what is right is that they worship Yaweh who is the Demiurg in the gnostic interpretation of the old testament, which is the devil. So in that sense this conspiracy theory is completely correct.
• "they eat babies" might be wrong, but they sure as hell like to fuck minors
• "Bill Gates wants to implant chips in my bloodstream" is wrong because it's Elon Musk who wants to implant chips
• "the system is rigged" well that's just the truth
• "the leftists want to replace Christianity and traditional values" yes that's exactly what I want to do

Edited 10 hours ago by Cred

[MutedMiles]

1 hour ago, lennart said:

From an epistemic point of view I don't understand Leos categorical rejection of conspiracy theories. I do understand that a lot of conspiracy theorists are epistemically bankrupt but that doesn't mean that conspiracy theories as a whole are stupid or wrong. A few core conspiracy theories are actually correct and I think it is ignorant to just disregard all of them.

@Leo Gura btw note that I am coming from a place of respect for your work thats why I am surprised about your position on that one.

Why you are calling them conspiracy theories if they are correct? If correctness can be shown in anyway, it's no more a conspiracy theory.

[Ramasta9]

Cause he is afraid they might actually be true.

[sholomar]

As someone who used to be a conspiracy theorist, can tell you most of them are bullshit, but then not all of them are. In the end it doesn't really matter if they are true or not. Human nature is human nature, and humans will continue to act on their genetic impulses as long as they can get away with it without checks and balances. 

The jews didn't do it, look at any government and it's full of the same type of people... most average people get on in spite of their government/leadership, not because of it.  You think the arabs or people who believe in any sort of organized religion are any better? 

The vaccine was not a depopulation plot, clogging people's arteries. Silly. Follow the money trail and see who profited from it instead, nothing more than humans wanting something for nothing, and taking advantage of a crisis seeing dollar signs. Biggest money printing operation in modern history.  Politicians mostly act to line their pockets in the end. The system is gamed for this group of people to take advantage of the central bank's printing press. Conspiracy or not?  All animal species are wired to want maximum outputs for minimum inputs, and will take handouts if given. Call it compassion if you want, call it greed if you want, but it's not natural selection. 

Edited 9 hours ago by sholomar

[lennart]

2 hours ago, MutedMiles said:

Why you are calling them conspiracy theories if they are correct? If correctness can be shown in anyway, it's no more a conspiracy theory.

In the end isnt everything a theory? I mean you can't now anything 100 % except for you immedeate experience. 

[MutedMiles]

3 hours ago, lennart said:

In the end isnt everything a theory? I mean you can't now anything 100 % except for you immedeate experience. 

Yeah, in that sense even our immediate experience isn't 100% too.We are not experiencing reality but our interpretation of it. So there is nothing 100% in that sense. If there is something that is 100% it's not in the domain of language, perceptions, concepts and sensations, So neither we can think of it or talk about it, So let's not waste our time. 

But to have any conversation we have to agree on some context. Your question was from an assumed context and i responded from that.

[Wilhelm44]

David Icke is a good example, he was ridiculed for many years, turns out he was right about a lot of things.

[Hojo]

Because you do not have direct experience of them.

Can you have direct experience that the earth or reality is flat? Yes

Can you have direct experience that the elites are doing satanic cult rituals?

If no, do you have evidence? Does the evidence = satanic cult rituals or could it be explained as something else?

If you dont have direct experience you are making shit up. When you start taking leaps of logic like this you lose your sanity like Ramaste. If you continue to make leaps in logic, like this person MUST be cloned you will start to do it with other things. Then other things and then with real life and then you are insane.

If you ask a person about their conspiracies you can see they are not grounded in anything besides, 'some information I picked up and decided to beleive without direct experience of it'.

Edited 2 hours ago by Hojo

[Leo Gura]

I dislike that conspiracy theories attract and feed epistemic perverts. These people badly delude themselves and we need to avoid that by all means here. They misuse nuggets of truth to delude themselves.

There is no better example of this than how PizzaGate and QAnon people end up voting for Trump: a rapist and Epstein's best friend.

Edited 2 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Wilhelm44]

23 minutes ago, Hojo said:

Because you do not have direct experience of them.

Can you have direct experience that the earth or reality is flat? Yes

Can you have direct experience that the elites are doing satanic cult rituals?

If no, do you have evidence? Does the evidence = satanic cult rituals or could it be explained as something else?

If you dont have direct experience you are making shit up. When you start taking leaps of logic like this you lose your sanity like Ramaste. If you continue to make leaps in logic, like this person MUST be cloned you will start to do it with other things. Then other things and then with real life and then you are insane.

If you ask a person about their conspiracies you can see they are not grounded in anything besides, 'some information I picked up and decided to beleive without direct experience of it'.

The whole world has evidence now that these pedo rings are actually a fact. Point is, that was once just a conspiracy theory. So maybe dont dismiss every conspiracy theory right away, simple as that.

Edited 2 hours ago by Wilhelm44

[Hojo]

@Wilhelm44Why wouldnt I? If there is a conspiracy and 2 people have the same information and one says its true and the other says its not true. If it turns out to be true the one that said it was true wasnt right. They were both making shit up.

Edited 2 hours ago by Hojo

[Wilhelm44]

Just now, Hojo said:

@Wilhelm44Why wouldnt I?

Because you'd be close minded. 

 

 

[Hojo]

@Wilhelm44Saying a conspiracy is true without direct experience is just as close minded.

[Wilhelm44]

3 minutes ago, Hojo said:

@Wilhelm44Saying a conspiracy is true without direct experience is just as close minded.

 

I never said to accept anything as true right away. Just keep an open mind, it's not that hard. Open mind means, ur open to it being true or false. Ie just dont make conclusions right away.

[Hojo]

@Wilhelm44 Thats not in my direct experience. Im not just going to entertain clones because people made up random shit.

I have a conspiracy that you are actually 3 elves wrapped in human skin. Entertain that and dont say its not true.

I have a conspiracy that when you are sleeping a giant worm comes out of your closet and sucks the semen out of your dick, Entertain that as plausible.

I have a conspiracy that your computer or phone is a sentitent robot thats leeching your lifeforce, entertain that as plausible.

I have a conspiracy that water is actually a demon and when you shower you are feeding the demon that keeps you out of heaven, entertain that conspiracy.

I have a conspiracy that apple and fruit and vegetables are actually alien life forces that are keeping you attached to hell, entertain that as plausible.

I have a conspiracy that sunlight is actually demon leech government program, entertain that as plausible.

You cannot say any of these are not true.

Edited 2 hours ago by Hojo

[Wilhelm44]

4 minutes ago, Hojo said:

@Wilhelm44 Thats not in my direct experience. Im not just going to entertain clones because people made up random shit.

I have a conpiracy that you are actually 3 elves wrapped in human skin. Entertain that and dont say its not true.

I have a conpiracy that when you are sleeping a giant worm comes out of your closet and sucks the semen out of your dick, Entertain that as plausible.

You also cant possibly know in your direct experience that something is absolutely not true, can you ?

[Hojo]

@Wilhelm44Why are you holding any position then? Including that I should keep an open mind? You are arguing yourself into not saying or doing anything. How do you know I should keep an open mind and not deny everything?

How do you know keeping an open mind is correct? How do you know having an open mind isnt close minded?

Edited 2 hours ago by Hojo

[Wilhelm44]

2 minutes ago, Hojo said:

@Wilhelm44Why are you holding any position then? Including that I should keep an open mind? You are arguing yourself into not saying or doing anything. How do you know I should keep an open mind and not deny everything?

How do you know keeping an open mind is correct? How do you know having an open mind isnt close minded?

Lol, im just saying keep an open mind untill overwhelming evidence points you in the right direction. Whats so hard about that. Just face it, you have a bias against conspiracy theories, and thats okay.

[Hojo]

@Wilhelm44 Im literally a flat earther. Not up and down flat. Forward and backward flat.

If I took your advice everytime I went into the shower into water I would be thinking about how its an alien government leech force taking my energy. Then I would go insane.

And I would have to keep thinking about that until the evidence proves it as true.

Edited 2 hours ago by Hojo