Help: I was sexually abused from 10-15 and it made me apathetic

[HopefulMan]

Afternoon guys, I'm looking for a path to try

I'm over 30 and I believe psychedelics are the only way out of my situation (maybe if I spend years on meditation I also could, but I have no idea)

When I say apathetic is that I just don't feel like doing anything. (I expand a bit more in the points below)

I could tell you all kinds of theory but I'll get to the facts to see if what I'm thinking makes sense:

• I was abused from 10-15
• That seemed to disconnect me from my emotions. 
  • Only the extreme ones are detectable (death of a love one)
  • But it doesn't stay with me while I've seen close people cry and feel sad for a dog that died over 10 years ago or my grandma who died 9 years ago
• I don't feel like doing anything, just the monkey brain stuff (eating bad foods, play video games, etc)
• Sex is not included. I feel like I'd love to have sex, but the experiences broke something in me (or disconnected)
• I've tried therapy and it doesn't work because most therapist are sheeps that don't look beyond what they were taught, they cannot handle people who think deeply about stuff (at least my experience)
• I did psilocybin and I cried a lot when I had my eyes closed. As soon as I opened them it was back to being apathetic. My eyes acted like a switch on my emotions. 
• I feel they helped, but just one round wasn't enough

I'd love to try psychedelics at a high frequency (without getting into dangerous zone) and I was wondering if I could do it myself, or moving to South America or somewhere in Asia where I could do assisted therapy at a sustainable price range (I earn minimum wage and being in Europe makes it harder or probably impossible)

I'm just looking for ideas from people who have a more open mind 

Thanks for your time. 

[Judy2]

i'm sorry you had to go through that.

you can keep trying with the psychedelics, although i don't have much input in that regard. what i would suggest though is that you can definitely supplement a psychedelic routine with a number of daily habits that can help you connect with yourself. journalling comes to mind....it might make you aware of some of the things that you didn't even think were there.

if you feel a lot of tension in your body, you might not know that there are ways to down-regulate this tension that will then help you access the underlying emotions. these are gonna be more of the uncomfortable ones (guilt, shame, fear, hatred, anger, despair, hopelessness, grief...) but accessing them temporarily - knowing that they can't kill you and they will pass - can open the door to other emotions (joy, desire, excitement, happiness, gratitude, hope, love, ....) as well. 

speaking of which, i wouldn't necessarily give up on therapy entirely, especially if you can afford it/insurance can cover it for you. sometimes it simply takes looking into a different approach or finding the right practicioner. if you have ptsd as a result of the abuse, have you ever looked into dbt?

Edited Sunday at 10:36 PM by Judy2

[HopefulMan]

Hey Judy! Thanks for the answer

Funny thing is, I don't feel it was aggressive or a negative experience. I even remember seeking it. I just realized I may have had Stockholm syndrome

The problem with those things (from experience I am saying this), is that they are words and cannot feel a speck of emotions out of them. I can talk about the experience all day without feeling nothing bad (except resentment for all the pain it caused me), but nothing else. 

With psychedelics though I didn't have to force it and I cried a a lot (maybe x10000 times what I've cried in anyone occasion, not exaggerating, I just don't cry, let alone sob)

I haven't read the book but I thought of the book "the body keeps the score" and that experience was that, all body 

When crying I didn't feel emotions, I was just crying without control (super weird, but fascinating experience haha)

No, I have not tried DBT and there is no assistance for me to get a therapist. 

Again, thanks for your time

[bazera]

@HopefulMan Hey man, sorry to hear that.

I don't have much experience with serious trauma, but when I did Holotropic Breathwork many pent up emotions came up via crying, laughing, shaking, screaming, etc. I still plan to do more of it weekly, maybe you should try that as well. 

Also, I've been researching some other ways of trauma release, and I've found Trauma Release Exercises (TRE). It's couple somatic exercises with your body that causes shaking and trauma release, you could also do that, you can find instructions on YouTube. 

 

Edited Monday at 11:03 AM by bazera

[Ulax]

Hey mate, very sorry to hear you had to endure such terrible abuse.

I respect your determination to address the consequences that have stemmed from it.

I'd recommend looking into the diagnosis of CPTSD. (Sorta occurs when you've had repeated relational traumas)

Here is a useful resource too: http://integralguide.com/

I don't know too much about treating CPTSD through psychedelics, but it seems risky to me. But CPTSD treatment seems still in its infancy, so its hard to say what exactly works that well.

I'm committed to IFS therapy for treating my CPTSD but I've had too few results with it to give it a confident recommendation anymore. Tho it may be more an issue of how im applying it.

IFS is a very open minded therapy tho.

If you wanna go the therapy route there are probs therapists out there who work with cptsd clients that take psychedelics too, and help them integrate.

Edited Monday at 12:33 PM by Ulax

[Judy2]

@HopefulMan yes, i can relate to this problem of either not talking about things, or talking about them while being very detached and cut off from my emotions.

i believe there can be a gradual learning curve with this, though. 

it helps to stop yourself once or twice a day, maybe close your eyes, breathe, and tell yourself that you'll stay with you and your emotions. if you can't share your emotions with others (yet), it's okay to focus on feeling on your own for now, or to find points of connection that feel more accessible and less serious or grandiose.

Edited Monday at 06:11 PM by Judy2

[HopefulMan]

@Judy2 @Ulax @bazera

All good! I wish it had not happened, that is true

Bazera:

We did a session on holotropic breath work but it did nothing for me as I kept falling asleep (I do that very easily). But other people had crazy experiences where their body moved weird. It is something I am open to do, but I haven't done enough research on it

Part of why I want to do more psychedelics is because it was easy and had a crazy effect (can't take the laziness out of me haha). Of course it is because it's the only thing that has made a difference

I'll look for that "trauma release exercises", thanks!

----

Ulax:

I downloaded a book about IFS and watched a few YT videos. It does make sense, but I can't say I've gone deep

Hopefuly you solve your CPTSD too!

Thanks1

--------

Ludy:

It is not that I cannot share my emotions, it is as if I was a psychopath with no emotions. 

If I stop and look, even in quite intense situations, I don't find any body sensation

 

-----

Everyone: I wish I could express my situation better, it is just so weird being this far detached that it is hard to find solutions

[bazera]

1 hour ago, HopefulMan said:

We did a session on holotropic breath work but it did nothing for me as I kept falling asleep (I do that very easily). But other people had crazy experiences where their body moved weird. It is something I am open to do, but I haven't done enough research on it

Part of why I want to do more psychedelics is because it was easy and had a crazy effect (can't take the laziness out of me haha). Of course it is because it's the only thing that has made a difference

To be honest if I had constant access to psychedelics, I'd do it slowly and methodically instead of Holotropic Breathwork. Maybe it works in different ways idk but still.

Stan Groff invented that hopotropic thing after LSD was outlawd and he coudn't practice his therapy with it, so...

Hey man, just remembered, I found this book last week:

https://www.amazon.com/Psychedelic-Therapy-Revolutionary-Restoring-Reclaiming/dp/1645476049/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0

It will come out at the end of March, you should check it out it could be helpful.

Edited Tuesday at 12:01 AM by bazera

[Judy2]

@HopefulMan that sounds really difficult. 

if you don't mind that i keep digging (let me know when it's too much)....you say "intense situations" - what demarcates a situation as such, aside from an emotion that may or may not be felt? for example, in such a situation, do you fidget a lot or feel yourself dissociating (most simply in the form of depersonalisation/derealisation, "feeling strange in your body", or like your self/ the 'doer' is not there anymore)? where are your thoughts going?

again, the theory i was taught in this context is that internal pressure or a perceived crisis can be so intense that access to emotions is completely blocked, and the way to access them is to start by releasing and regulating tension. i don't know if this applies to your situation, but maybe you can check in and see if this feels accurate next time things seem intense. one way of checking is if physical stimuli (exercise, hot/cold water, very spicy or sour food) change your state at all.

 

....and something else that came to mind: can you give yourself some self-compassion throughout this? it might make a huge difference for your system to know that you're not blaming yourself for struggling at the moment, and it's okay that you are still working on figuring things out. 

Edited Tuesday at 02:45 AM by Judy2

[HopefulMan]

 @bazera dayum, didn't know that. I guess it is just another way of getting the mind/brain to get into a particular state. Thanks for the book recommendation, Ill set up a reminder 

 

@Judy2 you can ask all you want, I will learn more about myself probably as I haven't talked deeply about this with anyone else

I'd say a situation is extreme/intense if the feelings associated with that experience is intense (fury, deep sadness, etc). If you were to see my emotions like the heartbeat on a monitor, you'd see no ups, no downs as if I was dead. My average state is optimism and peace. The only extreme thing that I can remember is death of a close one or seeing someone go through a hard time and most times I just feel the same (and I believe I also feel frustrated because I cannot have a normal life)

Question for you, when you say state, what do you mean exactly? Something I've found consistently is that after the gym I do feel more at peace, like not wanting to listen to anything, but just walk back home with my thoughts

I am lucky in a few aspects Judy. I could have turned out an angry man, a pessimist, etc. But I am an optimist, at peace, etc. Sure I cannot have some key things for the human experience, as feeling love, but I believe it will get solved. The only thing that pains me is my age and how having a family with kids is slipping through my fingers. But I keep a positive attitude most of the time 

[Judy2]

4 hours ago, HopefulMan said:

 

@Judy2 Question for you, when you say state, what do you mean exactly? Something I've found consistently is that after the gym I do feel more at peace, like not wanting to listen to anything, but just walk back home with my thoughts 

good question:)

i think it's like the totality of my physical and emotional sensations, my subjective experience (thoughts, feelings) and how they all interact with and influence one another, how they are basically entangled in some sort of matrix.

[Judy2]

14 hours ago, Judy2 said:

@HopefulMan that sounds really difficult. 

if you don't mind that i keep digging (let me know when it's too much)....you say "intense situations" - what demarcates a situation as such, aside from an emotion that may or may not be felt? for example, in such a situation, do you fidget a lot or feel yourself dissociating (most simply in the form of depersonalisation/derealisation, "feeling strange in your body", or like your self/ the 'doer' is not there anymore)? where are your thoughts going?

again, the theory i was taught in this context is that internal pressure or a perceived crisis can be so intense that access to emotions is completely blocked, and the way to access them is to start by releasing and regulating tension. i don't know if this applies to your situation, but maybe you can check in and see if this feels accurate next time things seem intense. one way of checking is if physical stimuli (exercise, hot/cold water, very spicy or sour food) change your state at all.

in this context i mean that certain emotions may be there (lingering underneath the surface) but not part of your awareness and thus contributing to your "state" despite not being felt explicitly. a shift in state can occur that would make the contributing emotions explicit and re-shape your present experience/where awareness 'goes' as a whole, or what is part of your scope of awareness.

don't quote me on this, i'm just making it up as i go. sorry if it sounds very fuzzy...i'm just trying to point to stuff you can observe in your present experience and how it 'morphs' from moment to moment.

maybe it would work better with an example.

[Ulax]

18 hours ago, HopefulMan said:

Ludy:

It is not that I cannot share my emotions, it is as if I was a psychopath with no emotions. 

If I stop and look, even in quite intense situations, I don't find any body sensation

Bro I'd look into dissociation too

[HopefulMan]

@Judy2 Oh, you mean emotions that change my behavior but as if they weren't there. I don't think that is the case most of the time. 

I believe I'm a pretty extreme case of how blocked my emotions are because of how long it was. I cannot explain it better than what I said about the heartbeat, I just happen to not feel like doing anything (except running from boredom with video games, reels, etc or eating because of hunger)

@Ulax anything in particular? Funny, I don't think I've ever done a specific search despite knowing it is my main problem haha

 

Thank you guys for the input. I want to ask how to grow and how to do psychedelics on your own, do you have any advice on where to post it and how to frame it? Have a great weekend

[Judy2]

11 hours ago, HopefulMan said:

@Judy2 Oh, you mean emotions that change my behavior but as if they weren't there. I don't think that is the case most of the time. 

I believe I'm a pretty extreme case of how blocked my emotions are because of how long it was. I cannot explain it better than what I said about the heartbeat, I just happen to not feel like doing anything (except running from boredom with video games, reels, etc or eating because of hunger)

maybe i misunderstand but it kind of looks like you are first negating this and then describing how it's exactly the case? i might be wrong though.

 

dissociation is a spectrum. in its milder forms, it is more like depersonalisation or derealisation, feeling strange in your body, like you aren't really there as a self anymore. you might look at your hands or your reflection in the mirror and get a very weird feeling from that. some people go physically numb or their senses become a bit clouded like there's cotton around their ears. alternatively, they may be hyper-aware and hyper-vigilant while still feeling very strange in their bodies, with their thoughts and senses. people can freeze physically, but they could also still move while feeling completely out of touch with themselves. in its more extreme forms, dissociation can cause you to start shaking uncontrollably, experience gaps in memory and lose control over your body, i.e. drop to the ground. the most common skill to deal with dissociation is either heat, cold, or physical exercise. 

the reason people dissociate is typically for self-preservation or protecting their mental faculties from traumatic events. every person can potentially dissociate, for example during a car accident (or in your case SA) - it would make it so that painful events wouldn't seem as real or close to YOU anymore. for those with trauma (post-traumatic stress or personality disorders), dissociation can become a learned response that keeps being reactivated even if the present trigger is no longer as objectively intense as a car accident, and it can be almost tempting to get lost in that world and you kind of don't know anymore if it's good or bad to be in that dissociated state. if you want to get therapy and work on the painful events causing problems in your life, though, it's tough to do that when you are constantly dissociating, i.e., not letting the therapist or yourself access the painful emotions underlying this behaviour that the behaviour seems to be sheltering you from in the first place...so it can be a bit of a vicious cycle, and, again, depending on how uncontrollably it affects a person, quite dangerous. this is also where pretty bad levels of self-harm can occur...cause people are so out of touch with themselves and don't even know anymore how to handle the way their bodies and minds are reacting. ...but it counts as dissociation way before it comes to that.

sorry for the oversharing:) i'm quite fascinated with the topic.

Edited 8 hours ago by Judy2

[HopefulMan]

@Judy2 if dissociation means that then I don't have it because nothing close to that happens. I thought it was a disconnect from my feelings. 

Unableness to feel

Please, keep writing if anything comes to mind. I have just a sliver of hope in my situation and anything is appreciated.

 

Thanks Judy again

 

[Judy2]

@HopefulMan it could be milder forms, still. or none of it:) i didn't mean to imply that any of the above has to be the case for you - just to inform you what that could be like.

i'm sure you can find some emotions if you keep looking. best of luck to you 🙏🏻 and take care:)

[VioletFlame]

TRIGGER WARNING:

Hi Hopeful Man, I wanted to stop by and to express my deepest sympathies to you. I am truly sorry this happened to you, I'm especially sorry because I know exactly what it's like to suffer from SA & PTSD. Between the ages of 4 and 8 yrs old I was SA and more graphically, I was sodomized by an immediate family member. It was by far the worst season of my life, the most significant chapter in my life, the most horrific aspect of my life, and it completely set the course for all the years following. I am now 28 years old and I will, of course, never forget it and I still carry those horrific memories, and all the immense pain that comes with it. However, I have learned to take that pain and channel it in ways which have been incredibly enlightening, profound, & healing.

One thing that helped me immensely on my PTSD recovery journey was developing grace. If you can look around, notice that all people in life are suffering in their own ways, just like you, (even if it's not on the surface, always ASSUME that they are, because nothing is ever as it seems) and if you can choose kindness, humility, and empathy over anything else, you will be free, you will be liberated, and you will feel more at peace. Embodying grace as a traumatized individual is one of the most profound, spiritually enlightening choices you can make in life. You are saying no matter what happened to me, I'M going to be the better person, the stronger person, the kinder person, no matter what. Unlike my abuser, *I* will choose empathy, *I* will choose kindness and treating others with dignity and respect. It is extremely empowering and has saved me many, many years of grief, misery, bitterness, resentment, turmoil, & apathy. Please remember and tell yourself that you DESERVE to feel JOY, love, kindness, respect, and every good thing in life. ESPECIALLY if you have experienced one of the greatest evils in this world any living soul could possibly experience, or even imagine, let alone endure. 

Be a humble superhero. Most superheroes have endured great traumas which is HOW most of them even developed their abilities, and transformed into heroes, from overcoming trauma or some kind of great adversity. That can be very inspiring. Are they walking around hating the world and everyone in it? Are they walking around as the villain? No, they're striving to heal, help, and save others. That is the ultimate goal of someone who has truly suffered from any type of trauma or adversity, you are meant to take that wisdom and use it to help mankind; to become a healer. That is the purpose of suffering sometimes, to master empathy, to see it as one of your gifts, and become a natural healer. Find the strengths in your trauma, because trust me, there is a lot. Trauma is a powerful motivator for self-discovery and transformation.

It took me years of self-reflection, personal growth work, and spiritual work to reframe my thought processing, my narratives, and my poor conditioning from the abuse. For years, mainly throughout my adolescent years I was self-destructive and insecure. It took time to re-develop feelings of self-worth, self-acceptance, self-love, etc. But once I finally did, they became deeper than ever, as if I am loving myself like I would love my daughter. Mother yourself. Look into re-parentification and inner-child work (Carl Jung), those concepts absolutely changed my life and my outlook on my traumatic experiences in the most beautiful way possible. If you can flip your perspective on the trauma, and recognize the strength and wisdom it has given you, because it does, it truly does, then you can start to see it in a new light, you can start to actually "see the light in the darkness" when you can switch your perspective on it.

I'm not here to say it's easy, because it's not, especially if you have endured years of abuse like I have, and all the subsequent years of pain, but I am here to tell you that it IS possible. I am a living, breathing, walking testimony of someone who has healed themselves, all on their own, from severe PTSD. I walk around smiling at everyone in the world and treat everyone with equal kindness, despite the horrors I endured. And that is a necessity to me, that is integrity, and it is my will as a human being; my moral responsibility. I always assume others are going through something or dealing with something, even if they too, are smiling. Yes, I have tried therapy and all sorts of things but at the end of the day, it was me who did 99% of the work. And unfortunately when you truly suffer, you are doing all the work, you're cleaning up a mess you didn't even make, you're picking up the pieces of someone else's trash that they left in your life, at the end of the day, in times of solitude and when you're all alone, you are sitting with those feelings, suffering again, and you are left with no other choice BUT to heal and reframe your thought-processing, otherwise you fall into an eternal loop of pain and turmoil, and well, who wants that?

If you've gotten this far, thank you for taking the time to read this and stepping into my shoes. Living with PTSD is hard, but it is very treatable and neuroplasticity is real. All I can say is I hope you have gotten something out of this and I sincerely hope this could help in some way. I am wishing you well and wishing you all the healing, joy, contentment, and peace. You are loved, you are seen, you are heard and you are understood. 

Edited 3 hours ago by VioletFlame