Help: I was sexually abused from 10-15 and it made me apathetic

[HopefulMan]

Afternoon guys, I'm looking for a path to try

I'm over 30 and I believe psychedelics are the only way out of my situation (maybe if I spend years on meditation I also could, but I have no idea)

When I say apathetic is that I just don't feel like doing anything. (I expand a bit more in the points below)

I could tell you all kinds of theory but I'll get to the facts to see if what I'm thinking makes sense:

• I was abused from 10-15
• That seemed to disconnect me from my emotions. 
  • Only the extreme ones are detectable (death of a love one)
  • But it doesn't stay with me while I've seen close people cry and feel sad for a dog that died over 10 years ago or my grandma who died 9 years ago
• I don't feel like doing anything, just the monkey brain stuff (eating bad foods, play video games, etc)
• Sex is not included. I feel like I'd love to have sex, but the experiences broke something in me (or disconnected)
• I've tried therapy and it doesn't work because most therapist are sheeps that don't look beyond what they were taught, they cannot handle people who think deeply about stuff (at least my experience)
• I did psilocybin and I cried a lot when I had my eyes closed. As soon as I opened them it was back to being apathetic. My eyes acted like a switch on my emotions. 
• I feel they helped, but just one round wasn't enough

I'd love to try psychedelics at a high frequency (without getting into dangerous zone) and I was wondering if I could do it myself, or moving to South America or somewhere in Asia where I could do assisted therapy at a sustainable price range (I earn minimum wage and being in Europe makes it harder or probably impossible)

I'm just looking for ideas from people who have a more open mind 

Thanks for your time. 

[Judy2]

i'm sorry you had to go through that.

you can keep trying with the psychedelics, although i don't have much input in that regard. what i would suggest though is that you can definitely supplement a psychedelic routine with a number of daily habits that can help you connect with yourself. journalling comes to mind....it might make you aware of some of the things that you didn't even think were there.

if you feel a lot of tension in your body, you might not know that there are ways to down-regulate this tension that will then help you access the underlying emotions. these are gonna be more of the uncomfortable ones (guilt, shame, fear, hatred, anger, despair, hopelessness, grief...) but accessing them temporarily - knowing that they can't kill you and they will pass - can open the door to other emotions (joy, desire, excitement, happiness, gratitude, hope, love, ....) as well. 

speaking of which, i wouldn't necessarily give up on therapy entirely, especially if you can afford it/insurance can cover it for you. sometimes it simply takes looking into a different approach or finding the right practicioner. if you have ptsd as a result of the abuse, have you ever looked into dbt?

Edited Sunday at 10:36 PM by Judy2

[HopefulMan]

Hey Judy! Thanks for the answer

Funny thing is, I don't feel it was aggressive or a negative experience. I even remember seeking it. I just realized I may have had Stockholm syndrome

The problem with those things (from experience I am saying this), is that they are words and cannot feel a speck of emotions out of them. I can talk about the experience all day without feeling nothing bad (except resentment for all the pain it caused me), but nothing else. 

With psychedelics though I didn't have to force it and I cried a a lot (maybe x10000 times what I've cried in anyone occasion, not exaggerating, I just don't cry, let alone sob)

I haven't read the book but I thought of the book "the body keeps the score" and that experience was that, all body 

When crying I didn't feel emotions, I was just crying without control (super weird, but fascinating experience haha)

No, I have not tried DBT and there is no assistance for me to get a therapist. 

Again, thanks for your time

[bazera]

@HopefulMan Hey man, sorry to hear that.

I don't have much experience with serious trauma, but when I did Holotropic Breathwork many pent up emotions came up via crying, laughing, shaking, screaming, etc. I still plan to do more of it weekly, maybe you should try that as well. 

Also, I've been researching some other ways of trauma release, and I've found Trauma Release Exercises (TRE). It's couple somatic exercises with your body that causes shaking and trauma release, you could also do that, you can find instructions on YouTube. 

 

Edited yesterday at 11:03 AM by bazera

[Ulax]

Hey mate, very sorry to hear you had to endure such terrible abuse.

I respect your determination to address the consequences that have stemmed from it.

I'd recommend looking into the diagnosis of CPTSD. (Sorta occurs when you've had repeated relational traumas)

Here is a useful resource too: http://integralguide.com/

I don't know too much about treating CPTSD through psychedelics, but it seems risky to me. But CPTSD treatment seems still in its infancy, so its hard to say what exactly works that well.

I'm committed to IFS therapy for treating my CPTSD but I've had too few results with it to give it a confident recommendation anymore. Tho it may be more an issue of how im applying it.

IFS is a very open minded therapy tho.

If you wanna go the therapy route there are probs therapists out there who work with cptsd clients that take psychedelics too, and help them integrate.

Edited yesterday at 12:33 PM by Ulax

[Judy2]

@HopefulMan yes, i can relate to this problem of either not talking about things, or talking about them while being very detached and cut off from my emotions.

i believe there can be a gradual learning curve with this, though. 

it helps to stop yourself once or twice a day, maybe close your eyes, breathe, and tell yourself that you'll stay with you and your emotions. if you can't share your emotions with others (yet), it's okay to focus on feeling on your own for now, or to find points of connection that feel more accessible and less serious or grandiose.

Edited 22 hours ago by Judy2

[HopefulMan]

@Judy2 @Ulax @bazera

All good! I wish it had not happened, that is true

Bazera:

We did a session on holotropic breath work but it did nothing for me as I kept falling asleep (I do that very easily). But other people had crazy experiences where their body moved weird. It is something I am open to do, but I haven't done enough research on it

Part of why I want to do more psychedelics is because it was easy and had a crazy effect (can't take the laziness out of me haha). Of course it is because it's the only thing that has made a difference

I'll look for that "trauma release exercises", thanks!

----

Ulax:

I downloaded a book about IFS and watched a few YT videos. It does make sense, but I can't say I've gone deep

Hopefuly you solve your CPTSD too!

Thanks1

--------

Ludy:

It is not that I cannot share my emotions, it is as if I was a psychopath with no emotions. 

If I stop and look, even in quite intense situations, I don't find any body sensation

 

-----

Everyone: I wish I could express my situation better, it is just so weird being this far detached that it is hard to find solutions

[bazera]

1 hour ago, HopefulMan said:

We did a session on holotropic breath work but it did nothing for me as I kept falling asleep (I do that very easily). But other people had crazy experiences where their body moved weird. It is something I am open to do, but I haven't done enough research on it

Part of why I want to do more psychedelics is because it was easy and had a crazy effect (can't take the laziness out of me haha). Of course it is because it's the only thing that has made a difference

To be honest if I had constant access to psychedelics, I'd do it slowly and methodically instead of Holotropic Breathwork. Maybe it works in different ways idk but still.

Stan Groff invented that hopotropic thing after LSD was outlawd and he coudn't practice his therapy with it, so...

Hey man, just remembered, I found this book last week:

https://www.amazon.com/Psychedelic-Therapy-Revolutionary-Restoring-Reclaiming/dp/1645476049/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0

It will come out at the end of March, you should check it out it could be helpful.

Edited 17 hours ago by bazera

[Judy2]

@HopefulMan that sounds really difficult. 

if you don't mind that i keep digging (let me know when it's too much)....you say "intense situations" - what demarcates a situation as such, aside from an emotion that may or may not be felt? for example, in such a situation, do you fidget a lot or feel yourself dissociating (most simply in the form of depersonalisation/derealisation, "feeling strange in your body", or like your self/ the 'doer' is not there anymore)? where are your thoughts going?

again, the theory i was taught in this context is that internal pressure or a perceived crisis can be so intense that access to emotions is completely blocked, and the way to access them is to start by releasing and regulating tension. i don't know if this applies to your situation, but maybe you can check in and see if this feels accurate next time things seem intense. one way of checking is if physical stimuli (exercise, hot/cold water, very spicy or sour food) change your state at all.

 

....and something else that came to mind: can you give yourself some self-compassion throughout this? it might make a huge difference for your system to know that you're not blaming yourself for struggling at the moment, and it's okay that you are still working on figuring things out. 

Edited 14 hours ago by Judy2

[HopefulMan]

 @bazera dayum, didn't know that. I guess it is just another way of getting the mind/brain to get into a particular state. Thanks for the book recommendation, Ill set up a reminder 

 

@Judy2 you can ask all you want, I will learn more about myself probably as I haven't talked deeply about this with anyone else

I'd say a situation is extreme/intense if the feelings associated with that experience is intense (fury, deep sadness, etc). If you were to see my emotions like the heartbeat on a monitor, you'd see no ups, no downs as if I was dead. My average state is optimism and peace. The only extreme thing that I can remember is death of a close one or seeing someone go through a hard time and most times I just feel the same (and I believe I also feel frustrated because I cannot have a normal life)

Question for you, when you say state, what do you mean exactly? Something I've found consistently is that after the gym I do feel more at peace, like not wanting to listen to anything, but just walk back home with my thoughts

I am lucky in a few aspects Judy. I could have turned out an angry man, a pessimist, etc. But I am an optimist, at peace, etc. Sure I cannot have some key things for the human experience, as feeling love, but I believe it will get solved. The only thing that pains me is my age and how having a family with kids is slipping through my fingers. But I keep a positive attitude most of the time 

[Judy2]

4 hours ago, HopefulMan said:

 

@Judy2 Question for you, when you say state, what do you mean exactly? Something I've found consistently is that after the gym I do feel more at peace, like not wanting to listen to anything, but just walk back home with my thoughts 

good question:)

i think it's like the totality of my physical and emotional sensations, my subjective experience (thoughts, feelings) and how they all interact with and influence one another, how they are basically entangled in some sort of matrix.

[Judy2]

14 hours ago, Judy2 said:

@HopefulMan that sounds really difficult. 

if you don't mind that i keep digging (let me know when it's too much)....you say "intense situations" - what demarcates a situation as such, aside from an emotion that may or may not be felt? for example, in such a situation, do you fidget a lot or feel yourself dissociating (most simply in the form of depersonalisation/derealisation, "feeling strange in your body", or like your self/ the 'doer' is not there anymore)? where are your thoughts going?

again, the theory i was taught in this context is that internal pressure or a perceived crisis can be so intense that access to emotions is completely blocked, and the way to access them is to start by releasing and regulating tension. i don't know if this applies to your situation, but maybe you can check in and see if this feels accurate next time things seem intense. one way of checking is if physical stimuli (exercise, hot/cold water, very spicy or sour food) change your state at all.

in this context i mean that certain emotions may be there (lingering underneath the surface) but not part of your awareness and thus contributing to your "state" despite not being felt explicitly. a shift in state can occur that would make the contributing emotions explicit and re-shape your present experience/where awareness 'goes' as a whole, or what is part of your scope of awareness.

don't quote me on this, i'm just making it up as i go. sorry if it sounds very fuzzy...i'm just trying to point to stuff you can observe in your present experience and how it 'morphs' from moment to moment.

maybe it would work better with an example.

[Ulax]

18 hours ago, HopefulMan said:

Ludy:

It is not that I cannot share my emotions, it is as if I was a psychopath with no emotions. 

If I stop and look, even in quite intense situations, I don't find any body sensation

Bro I'd look into dissociation too