Why people dont understand Islam and why it is a book of the Angels

[kavaris]

Yousll have to tell me what yous think of him (or point me to the thread bout him if yous have already tlked bout him before) cause i feel like, hey, atleast he is goin for peace or he seems to have a goal towards it~Though thats why i ask what others think of him, as im not an expert or anything on Islam or this side of religion.

I know history of course, but do i know bout like, religion as it would pertain to Islam and these freedom fighters? I dont believe so—Or Rather—Like, i have a very limited window into it, in other words.

*p.s see my post before this one on madhi*

Edited Wednesday at 10:17 PM by kavaris

[kavaris]

Or maybe i should ask, do you take his interpretations to be a bit outlandish? Or, do they corroborate somewhat of the truth of islam and these things, as i dont know.. Like... Am i watching the wrong person to learn about Islam and what the perspectives are around it? I dont know

i can say ive watched up to so far where hes explained the two different kinds of islam and stuff, so im atleast in on that whole story.

If theres more to it, that which is told by someone else, its likely that i dont or havent heard of him or what ever this other perspective is, if such a thing exists, which im sure there is, but like, i have a limited window into these sorts of things.

p.s. i also find him interesting, meaning Madhi or watever his real name is, as im interested in Egypt and learning bout like, whats goin on there, as ive talked to real ppl before from various regions of the middle east, persia, israel, algeria, libya, etc., but i forget if/when i talked to someone from egypt. nevertheless im intetested in hearing bout islam, and their relationship/history to egypt.

p.s.s., ive had a couple friends from Israel, though they had like, traumatic exp., like they didnt tell me about it, but they had just told me they were involved in some of the wars over there or something, meaning in Israel or places around it or something. But like i said, they didnt want to elaborate on anything more than that, so i didnt really ask them anything about it. Like, as "men" we dont normally ask each other things that are like, super-close or super family related stuff, like we are more like "wanna see this cool thing" and rarely do we say "hey hows your family, hows your parents", like maybe people from other countries go through that whole shpeel, but i dont think we do this in America, as we are a land of Traditionless children. Or maybe thats just me, iuno.

Edited Wednesday at 10:34 PM by kavaris

[Schahin]

11 minutes ago, kavaris said:

Or maybe i should ask, do you take his interpretations to be a bit outlandish? Or, do they corroborate somewhat of the truth of islam and these things, as i dont know.. Like... Am i watching the wrong person to learn about Islam and what the perspectives are around it? I dont know

i can say ive watched up to so far where hes explained the two different kinds of islam and stuff, so im atleast in on that whole story.

If theres more to it, that which is told by someone else, its likely that i dont or havent heard of him or what ever this other perspective is, if such a thing exists, which im sure there is, but like, i have a limited window into these sorts of things.

p.s. i also find him interesting, meaning Madhi or watever his real name is, as im interested in Egypt and learning bout like, whats goin on there, as ive talked to real ppl before from various regions of the middle east, persia, israel, algeria, libya, etc., but i forget if/when i talked to someone from egypt. nevertheless im intetested in hearing bout islam, and their relationship/history to egypt

 

 

I dont really know. 

I like the Sufi Path, the mystical path of Islam and not the obsessive take everything literal part of a 1400 year old book that was created in violent and barbaric times in order to bring justice and a revolution to that society.

My favourite poet Sufi Poet are Hafiz and Rumi, there are Sufic Groups where you can participate and be initiated and they get into a trance like extasy state through dance and singing.

In that state they manage to put swords through their head without anything happening to them, so there must be a truth to it. 

But reading Hafiz the great Iranian Poet, who was a Sufi himself, you will see that he didnt care at all about the literal take of the book, he was interested in the mystical sides of it, being a regular winedrinker and having spent a lot of his time in bars drinking alcohol

[kavaris]

2 minutes ago, Schahin said:

"I like the Sufi Path, the mystical path of Islam... etc., ... reading Hafiz the great Iranian Poet, who was a Sufi himself..."

Ooooh. Okay so yous are on to "Sufi-ism". Gotchya. I like the Sufi's, though admittedly, its been somewhat neglected in my studies, as ive looked at some many groups, Sufi's, Manichaeans, Chaldeans, Zoroastrians... and various other Islamic, gnostic and jewish and/or esoteric groups, and i seem to have let the Sufiism stuff fall through the cracks. Though now that youve brought it up i might give it another look.

[kavaris]

@Schahin
I should also tell yas why i like the middle east languages too, as im genuinely interested in it beyond just the surface level, but also , the deep dirty level of the language and writing: And thats cause i find myself very interested in the Old, Ancient Assyrian/Syriac/New Aramaic or whatever they call it -languages, and that whole branch, like... And its relationship to Egyptian language. As im real into writing systems, as yous might know by now.

Edited Wednesday at 10:42 PM by kavaris

[Someone here]

13 minutes ago, Schahin said:

I like the Sufi Path, the mystical path of Islam and not the obsessive take everything literal part of a 1400 year old book that was created in violent and barbaric times in order to bring justice and a revolution to that society.

i think anyone who's at least stage green understands this . Makes me wonder whats the the point of this whole discussion here ? Because that's the whole shtick with the Breakingthewall guy.. Because Sufis are actually considered heretics and atheists by most of the Islamic scholars..islamic sects ..and even Muslim people.

Mainstream Islam says the Quran is the final literal word of the exclusive one and only creator of this universe. there is no dancing around this core theological belief in Mainstream Islam. If you change a single word in that statement and replace it with Sufi fluff you are immediately an apostate and you gonna be killed in countries like Afghanistan for example ...not to mention eternal fire in the after life . Likewise for accepting all the moral commands in the quran like cutting the hands of theivs..stoning a woman to death if she had sex without marriage. Dude wake up .

Edited Wednesday at 10:48 PM by Someone here

[kavaris]

Hey, im not sure how the thread started, but im interested. Like Im interested in Islam atleast. As i see how theres two sides to the story. Im also interested in what anyone else whos interested, what they see in it, or, what they feel is to be appreciated, as i can see theres some emotional thing goin on here.

[kavaris]

Or if yous mean, its like a roadblock as far as the eye can see, as in "its either too dull nd boring, and/or its literally uncontestable — and in either way we should move one..." typeve thing. im fine w that as well.

[Someone here]

@kavaris islam: Allah just there since forever. He created humans to worship him cuz his bored. If you worship you get sex and alcohol..forever. if you don't worship you get your ass fried..forever. 

[Ramasta9]

There is Truth in every book, but not a single book contains the whole Truth. Many are far from it.

The only book i say is closest to the Truth or True nature is Lao Tzu's - Tao Te Ching.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Schahin said:

Marrying young girls was common all over the World not even in Arabia. It was common in Europe, in the Roman Empire

Young girls like 14, no kids like 9. Julius Caesar or even Genghis Khan, a great fucker, didn't have sex with kids, they had with young girls, no kids. 9 is a kid, Aisha played with puppets , it's written. 

1 hour ago, Schahin said:

We dont want it today because we have a different perspective on such things. But it was extremely common all over the world, dont take that as an argument.

No, it wasn't. Having sex with 9 years old kids wasn't common, it's something special. Btw, in Irak the Parliament approved a law that allows marriages with 9 years old girls , in 2025. They do because Muhammad did, and Muhammad is perfect according islam, then if he did, it's good

1 hour ago, Schahin said:

the Bhagavad Ghita Ajurna (not Krishna) advocates for the Caste System, a system of degrading people and treating them as cockroaches,

Then as he said that, it's good to do it? The Aztecs ripped hearts to avoid the sun devour earth, and that doesn't mean that we should do it now.

1 hour ago, Schahin said:

am talking about Islam being a revolution in barbaric and violent times

Agree, in that time was progress, nowadays is regression 

1 hour ago, Schahin said:

And I am not emotional, its because of people like you, that those atrocities  of the Genocide could have happened in the first place. You advocated the Genocide very clearly, its all written down here in the Forum.

I never did that. What I said is that if you put yourself in the Israeli mind,and you are surrounded of enemies who wants your destruction, and they do the massacre of October, you have to answer very strongly or disappear. If I were Israeli, I would emigrate and never return to that place of hate. But you can't assume that all the israelíes will do the same, you have to understand that some will choose to fight 

Edited Wednesday at 11:21 PM by Breakingthewall

[kavaris]

Like what i wanna ask now is, are yous just tryina be silly, or are yous talkin bout somethin real, cause if yous got somethin real to say, yous gotta say it quick, cause im not a person who sticks around for long. My appearance cannot be taken for granted.

[Breakingthewall]

Anyway,.islam has great mystics. The best in my opinion is al hallah, I am the truth. True, he was tortured and  executed by the Muslims, but same time they kept his words without apparently distortion. Christianity after Saint Augustine wouldn't have done it; they would have erased the words of a heretic.

Christianity, after the Council of Hippo, became the most terrifying system of thought in history, when they include original sin and eternal hell.

Edited Wednesday at 11:36 PM by Breakingthewall

[Someone here]

9 minutes ago, kavaris said:

Like what i wanna ask now is, are yous just tryina be silly, or are yous talkin bout somethin real

I'm doing both . If I put it in a clean neat language there is this thing called Allah sitting on a throne In the heavens .he was never born nor will ever die ..and has all the characteristics of any God in all of humanity's religions and mythologies.  He created the universe and this earth and humans specially to worship him. Nothing else .worship through the Islam prayer which similar to Jewish prayer 5 times a day you bow down and glorify him since adolescence till last breath of your life .After you die he either takes you to eternal heaven which is a place for hedonistic desires or to hell which is a place for eternal punishment by burning in fire . 

Edited Wednesday at 11:32 PM by Someone here

[kavaris]

🧿

[kavaris]

On 2/25/2026 at 5:34 PM, Schahin said:

I like the Sufi Path

This got me thinkin today, and i got watchamakalit to make be this beautiful chart out of all the middle eastern belief groups nd such, zoroastra., manichaens, the chaldeans, the sufis... etc, etc, so that i could just see like the common nd similar threads, nd shades of... nd then i thought, maybe we use Sufism as more of an interlink between islam and just mystical side in general, as iuno if yas know, the islamic ppl/religion are taking over, one day at a time. But yas can use Sufism as that gobetween, i mean, in the most extreme cases. As Sufism is not only alot newer, its also got the most in common w islam, i feel, or so thats what this ai talking to me today had made it seem like. The others are too mystical. So Sufi is the perfect go-between, nd like, that could be the like, you know, your (our) way of talking to someone, or meeting someone to balance the tide, like... Say you are approached by someone of middle eastern decent, nd you only hav a moment to respond with what/who you are, nd what you are about. So you are like "Oh, blah, blah, blah, of nd you know, i been gettin into Sufi-ism..." And you know, not saying too much, otherwise youll scare ppl  haha... Or maybe try that. Maybe its like you gotta be aggressive w it. Lol. No, dont be aggressive.

Edited 20 hours ago by kavaris

[kavaris]

Quote

In Sufi teaching, the human being is often described as having layers:
Nafs — the ego-self, the lower impulses.
Qalb — the heart, the center of awareness.
Rūḥ — the spirit, the higher life breathed by God.

I was lookin this up, and thats beautifully said, imo, as far as what ive felt nd experienced. I mean, i myself dont really~or havent really attempted to describe spirit (or actually i have "defined spirit", but ive never "placed it inside of a larger framework"), And seeing as they already got stuff like this, that which is very sound and logical, and i see nothing wrong with it:
Ego-self - Lower level (w/, maybe even a slice of grounding, -apart of it, cause you need your ego to even begin in the first place dont ya)
Qalb, centering (Hey, what else would we call it? Sounds fine)
Ruh - spirit - And it says:" The spirit is from the command of my Lord, and you have been given only little knowledge about it."

Hey that jives w/ me. Im sure they all sortve go along a similar idea, even if the terminology and ideas are slightly mixed around. But i like this, cause then you simultaneously leave room to define the "soul" as more of the synonym for what we talk about when we are pointing to consciousness, that is, the thing that doesnt dissolve, infinite/eternal, and can never die, or whatever it is (i wrote a thing about it, and im tryina remember how i phrased it, but its something like that).

p.s. im writing a thing that begins in an Hermetic direction -So now knowing this about Sufi ism, i can start to feed in these types of things nd ideas, such that i (all of us really) can just work on making the language English derived, or whatever language yous want, i mean take it in a poetic direction~it doesnt matter, seeing as all of this stuff already is out there in a base form already. And then everyone is not only on the same page, everyone is feeding in these sorts of ideas that are building on a common center. Not that it wasnt already, but its def now i believe.

Edited 18 hours ago by kavaris

[kavaris]

You know whats also crazy, or not crazy but like, if you think bout it, there really isnt like a strong presence of a forum for all things like truth, or being, or mysticism, or hermetic/sufi nd watever other teaching forum, as i guess it was hard to find a good keyword that everyone was gonna be able to find like, i just named so many things, so thats somethin to consider (ive looked through some alchemy discords nd i felt like anyone could easily try nd start their own to surpass the little ways theyve come) Like its just so broad of/encompassing of a~many ideas, that iuno. Its a totally missed opportunity. And i guess its like, its not as big as i thought, or ive never encountered it as like a popular thing. It feels like it would be though, right? iuno. Its strange, who knows.

Edited 16 hours ago by kavaris

[Schahin]

On 25.2.2026 at 11:44 PM, Someone here said:

i think anyone who's at least stage green understands this . Makes me wonder whats the the point of this whole discussion here ? Because that's the whole shtick with the Breakingthewall guy.. Because Sufis are actually considered heretics and atheists by most of the Islamic scholars..islamic sects ..and even Muslim people.

Mainstream Islam says the Quran is the final literal word of the exclusive one and only creator of this universe. there is no dancing around this core theological belief in Mainstream Islam. If you change a single word in that statement and replace it with Sufi fluff you are immediately an apostate and you gonna be killed in countries like Afghanistan for example ...not to mention eternal fire in the after life . Likewise for accepting all the moral commands in the quran like cutting the hands of theivs..stoning a woman to death if she had sex without marriage. Dude wake up .

 

 

There is no stoning punishment in the Quran, that's from the Old Testament (Thora). Yes I agree with you about the cutting hands off of the thieves, but the following verse says not to do so, if they repent. I understand that more as a harsh threat to big time Thieves that steal with no remorse, like nowadays you see corrupt Politicians and Big Companies stealing money with no shame. 

As already said, it was a violent and corrupt and barbaric time of evil surrounding the present all the time with constant tribal wars and superstition, so its a totally different era than ours is now, you cannot compare the surrounding conditions with those of now. The Quran has countless references to Compassion and Forgiveness being way higher values than Anger and Confrontation.

Sufi Scholars are also scholars and they have visions of the higher spheres and the angels and so son, like the Santo Daime people use Ayahuasca and have visions in a Christian Setting, Sufis have inner realizations and visions and Out of Body Experiences through the Islamic Lense.

Here you have Surah 3:6:

It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.

It clearly states that some verses are very precise and are the core of the book (The verses about Justice, Compassion, Love God as Oneness of all of Existence, Helping the Poor and the Orphans, and freeing the Slaves)

While other verses are elusive and those that search for trouble and have deviant hearts (warmongering people, hateful people, those that abuse the name of God to reach their power or to use their own interpretation) will abuse those verses for their sick heart ambitions. And those are the Extremists you are talking about. It clearly says that noone knows its true interpretation other than God alone

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Schahin

[Schahin]

On 26.2.2026 at 0:32 AM, Someone here said:

I'm doing both . If I put it in a clean neat language there is this thing called Allah sitting on a throne In the heavens .he was never born nor will ever die ..and has all the characteristics of any God in all of humanity's religions and mythologies.  He created the universe and this earth and humans specially to worship him. Nothing else .worship through the Islam prayer which similar to Jewish prayer 5 times a day you bow down and glorify him since adolescence till last breath of your life .After you die he either takes you to eternal heaven which is a place for hedonistic desires or to hell which is a place for eternal punishment by burning in fire . 

 

Well there is no reference of 5 times prayer in the Quran. Prayer is something universal you have it with Hindus you have it with Buddhists, Jesus Christ told the people to pray.

Prayer is a means for people to devote and put their their lives to the higher power, to the absolute God, (if you dont think God exists at all, and that everything is a coincidence, I woner how you made 13.000 posts on this forum). Prayer is can also be a good mean to kill your ego and is certainly a good way to be grateful for what you have instead of wanting more and more like a greedy ungrateful person, of whom we have plenty on the planet.

 

The Quran says there is no duty to follow the religion. So nobody has to become obsessive about anything. You can be a Sufi and use Islam as a mystical form of reaching higher states of Consciousness, which is what Sufis are regularly doing, they receive visions of the prophet and its followers, his daughter Fatima. I heard Sufi stories already its as real as you can imagine. And they do unimaginable stuff to their bodies, like pushing a sword into ones head who is in an out of body experience. The basis for their mystical Experiences is Islam, not a psychedelic drink or something, but chanting praise to Allah in a very repeated manner while they dance alongside that

I went to a holy Islamic Shrine in Iran once, and felt a deep sense of peace when I was extremely anguished, where did that sense of peace come from?

If you follow Islam, like a lunatic, obsessive person who only lives his life to read through that entire book, of course you become nuts and think even breathing will get you to hell, but use commong sense, be well grounded in Wisdom and be a person of reason as Surah 3:/ quoted above says and understand the context of its appearance and its necessary hell references that were needed to bring order into a barbaric population.

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Schahin