How big was the PUA movement at its peak? How does it compare current gen looksmaxxin

[UpperMaster]

I am a Gen Zer, so I was just a kid when RSD and Mystery were popular. 

How big was PUA movement at its peak? PUA seemed to become very mainstream, with Mystery going on talk shows etc. 

How does it compare with today's looksmaxxing in terms of popularity? I mean, clavicular etc have become mad popular, everyone seems to be focusing on looks optimization now. 

Also, if PUA was last gen solution to dating and looksmaxxing is current gem solution to dating, what do you think will be the trend 15 years from now? 

 

I thought this would be an interesting thread to start..

[LordFall]

Was pretty huge, they had events in most major cities yearly. I met RSD Madison and RSD Alex when he was still part of them. The Game by Neil Strauss was a new york times best seller for a couple months.

Very interesting to think of dating in 15 years. I think it'll have completely changed from today. AI dating will be common and if you want a real girlfriend/boyfriend the AI will coach you on how to do it. 

Hard to say where the average person will be economically. 2041 is peak AI automation timeline so I assume by then the average person will be on some kind of AI UBI and get food and shelter covered by the government and perhaps that'll help the average person stop stressing and date more. 

[UpperMaster]

13 minutes ago, LordFall said:

Was pretty huge, they had events in most major cities yearly. I met RSD Madison and RSD Alex when he was still part of them. The Game by Neil Strauss was a new york times best seller for a couple months.

Very interesting to think of dating in 15 years. I think it'll have completely changed from today. AI dating will be common and if you want a real girlfriend/boyfriend the AI will coach you on how to do it. 

Hard to say where the average person will be economically. 2041 is peak AI automation timeline so I assume by then the average person will be on some kind of AI UBI and get food and shelter covered by the government and perhaps that'll help the average person stop stressing and date more. 

 

Damn best seller. So pick-up was super duper mainstream. Okay, that puts things into perspective. Like now it makes sense why looksmaxxing and blackpill became popular, it's like a rise of just another paradigm in the dating world. Before it was repill and pua, now its blackpill and looksmaxxing.  

 

Like it just mind blowing to be that these PUA guys have such different approach to the problem. And such a different way of view the world. 

Just the fact that if one came to the dating scene 15 years ago, they might have blamed a lot of my results on me just not being charasmatic and alpha enough. Now people more blame their looks. 

idk why its mind-blowing to me.

[LordFall]

Most humans have massive mental blocks stopping them from their goals, it's not really a thing out there stopping them. Also be careful with dating it's a very complex web of identity meaning that a lot of guys don't actually crave a woman they crave that feeling of being good enough inside. 

Right now we are facing a decentralization of dating(and work too) so it becomes a free for all of different ideologies. Idk how popular the blackpill thing is I don't follow it but I've seen clavicular pop up. The other big camp is the tradcon trashing everything every new trend in society and saying we gotta back to the way things are.

Individually as a single person your dating options have never been better for you. There's a greater cost of entry to getting a relationship but you can now date any kind of woman on earth or many of them if you'd like. 

What personal issues are you facing yourself in that area? 

[something_else]

Pickup and looksmaxxing are like fashion trends.

Skinny jeans, baggy jeans, quiet luxury, streetwear etc. each of these trends have elements that work. But the people who dive headfirst into every new wave and build their entire identity around it don't usually look stylish or cool, they just look like tryhards.

The same thing happens in dating. There are useful ideas in trends like pickup and looksmaxxing, but the people who make these frameworks their whole personality usually come off as forced, tryhard, and honestly just a bit soulless and hollow.

Women are attracted to men who are comfortable with expressing who they are, who have a palpable coolness/vibe, and who don't really give a fuck what other people think about said vibe.

[Elliott]

PUA was not the generational solution to dating, we just dated normally, we dated people we met socially, our friends set us up with people. I'm a younger millennial and had to just now look up what RSD stands for. PUA was considered to be for losers.

Edited Thursday at 12:03 PM by Elliott

[LordFall]

4 hours ago, Elliott said:

PUA was not the generational solution to dating, we just dated normally, we dated people we met socially, our friends set us up with people. I'm a younger millennial and had to just now look up what RSD stands for. PUA was considered to be for losers.

Your perspective shallow, uninformed and judgemental. The whole start of the pickup community was for people who didn't manage to date normally. Part of that was uncalibrated nerdy people, of which I was proudly a part of, but a lot of it are what are "non losers" to use your words like divorced men or people that were indoctrinated into religion and fell out if it and had to learn to date normally. 

Also to use your paradigm, I would personally call a lot of those regular couples that you call the norm to be mediocre/toxic/low quality relationships. Not all of course but a lot of times these high school/college relationships happen by convenience and default state and are not fundamentally highly compatible relationships between people who have worked on their flaws and communication skills/traumas. I know a lot of these people and I would shoot myself before trading lives with them lol.

I run a few different types of in person communities both for pickup stuff and for "regular folks" like creatives group, business and investing masterminds and have been exposed to way more people and couples than an average person. If you think the average couple and person that hasn't done pickup has a phenomenal relationship, I have a bridge to sell you. 

[Elliott]

16 minutes ago, LordFall said:

Your perspective shallow, uninformed and judgemental. The whole start of the pickup community was for people who didn't manage to date normally.

I Think an offshoot turned into that. It started as guys just trying to have sex, and mostly still is, even the guys on here, sure they want a girlfriend, but pickup is primarily about sex for them.

16 minutes ago, LordFall said:

Part of that was uncalibrated nerdy people, of which I was proudly a part of, but a lot of it are what are "non losers" to use your words like divorced men or people that were indoctrinated into religion and fell out if it and had to learn to date normally. 

That's the conventional albeit malicious, meaning of loser. I apologize for using the term, it's just the most accurate in colloquial language.

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Also to use your paradigm, I would personally call a lot of those regular couples that you call the norm to be mediocre/toxic/low quality relationships. Not all of course but a lot of times these high school/college relationships happen by convenience and default state and are not fundamentally highly compatible relationships between people who have worked on their flaws and communication skills/traumas. I know a lot of these people and I would shoot myself before trading lives with them lol.

I meet people as an adult, socializing.

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I run a few different types of in person communities both for pickup stuff and for "regular folks" like creatives group, business and investing masterminds and have been exposed to way more people and couples than an average person. If you think the average couple and person that hasn't done pickup has a phenomenal relationship, I have a bridge to sell you. 

I don't. You're jumping to wild conclusions over a narrow and concise statement, seemingly to overcompensate for your hidden beliefs on the subject.

[LordFall]

43 minutes ago, Elliott said:

I Think an offshoot turned into that. It started as guys just trying to have sex, and mostly still is, even the guys on here, sure they want a girlfriend, but pickup is primarily about sex for them.

That's the conventional albeit malicious, meaning of loser. I apologize for using the term, it's just the most accurate in colloquial language.

I meet people as an adult, socializing.

I don't. You're jumping to wild conclusions over a narrow and concise statement, seemingly to overcompensate for your hidden beliefs on the subject.

I don't know why you're seeming to imply that learning how to have casual sex is a bad thing but you're straight up wrong about most pickup guys being more into it over finding a relationship. Most pickup guys I know are not really into sleeping with a lot of women, just do it a few times until they find a girl they're compatible with and they like and they date them.

I mean we can agree to disagree but being a loser means losing at the thing you're trying to accomplish no? Losing at your own life. Which I would argue is the case of most people that haven't put a lot of effort towards creating the life of their dreams.  Which is most people that haven't put a lot of effort into their dating life. 

[Elliott]

1 hour ago, LordFall said:

I don't know why you're seeming to imply that learning how to have casual sex is a bad thing but you're straight up wrong about most pickup guys being more into it over finding a relationship.

I didn't imply that, that's just you knowing that it is deceptive and abusive, and your emotional overeaction making that assumption is just more attempt at deception. I like casual sex, never done pickup though, I don't go out for sex or target women for it, that's what losers do.

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Most pickup guys I know are not really into sleeping with a lot of women, just do it a few times until they find a girl they're compatible with and they like and they date them.

Sincerely, I don't mean the good guys are losers. I think PUA for a girlfriend is cool, I don't consider guys like that to be losers. Really, I think they're awesome, some girls don't socialize enough and need that.

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I mean we can agree to disagree but being a loser means losing at the thing you're trying to accomplish no? Losing at your own life. Which I would argue is the case of most people that haven't put a lot of effort towards creating the life of their dreams.  Which is most people that haven't put a lot of effort into their dating life. 

I was just using the term flippantly.

Edited Thursday at 07:50 PM by Elliott

[LordFall]

41 minutes ago, Elliott said:

I didn't imply that, that's just you knowing that it is deceptive and abusive, and your emotional overeaction making that assumption is just more attempt at deception.

This is a wild take and I don't think you can explain it. How do you bring deception into this? If you sleep with women by deceiving them that's a projection on your part my man. 

I wouldn't say I'm emotional nor overreacting. I just hate to see low level commentary and discussion on a serious topic and like to call people when they say stuff that doesn't sound right to me to see if they can explain their sentiment in a way that actually makes sense or they're just saying random nonsense. 

[Elliott]

14 minutes ago, LordFall said:

This is a wild take and I don't think you can explain it. How do you bring deception into this? If you sleep with women by deceiving them that's a projection on your part my man. 

Women tend to be naive and believe men are interested in them as a person when men talk to them, even when the guy only cares about having sex. When you speak to a woman like a person, she tends to believe you're interested in her as a person, not just as a vagina. It's usually deception if you're approaching for sex. Even if you two have sex, she's probably thinking "I have a boyfriend now".

Quote

I wouldn't say I'm emotional nor overreacting. I just hate to see low level commentary and discussion on a serious topic and like to call people when they say stuff that doesn't sound right to me to see if they can explain their sentiment in a way that actually makes sense or they're just saying random nonsense. 

I appreciate it, I say stuff flippantly.

Edited Thursday at 08:13 PM by Elliott

[LordFall]

12 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Women tend to be naive and believe men are interested in them as a person when men talk to them, even when the guy only cares about having sex. When you speak to a woman like a person, she tends to believe you're interested in her as a person, not just as a vagina. It's usually deception if you're approaching for sex. Even if you two have sex, she's probably thinking "I have a boyfriend now".

I appreciate it, I say stuff flippantly.

No worries thank you for engaging.

I will say I think you're underestimating how much woman want casual sex. Very common for women to fuck a guy knowing she'll never date for just temporary companionship and sexual fulfillment. I had a friends with benefit I saw for 3 months and eventually she texted me hey I'm starting to see this guy more seeing gonna see where this goes. They've been dating for like 3 years now. No bad blood from either party we had good times and went on dates even she would hangout with me and my friends but we were ultimately not compatible. I would also go as far as to say fucking me probably helped find her relationship as she could experience a man and know what part she enjoys and doesn't and what she wants in a long term companion.

Where is the deception/toxicity in that?

I would also go as far as to say the anti sex position is inherently negative and toxic. In many parts of the world that girl would've been shunned by her family and abused verbally if not physically for having casual sex with me. And the red pillers will say she has a high body count and is ruined forever now? lol

Be careful with how you think about sex and dating, the shaming of it is one of the biggest cults in the world currently that ruins people's lives. 

[Elliott]

32 minutes ago, LordFall said:

 

I will say I think you're underestimating how much woman want casual sex. Very common for women to fuck a guy knowing she'll never date for just temporary companionship and sexual fulfillment.

A ton of women want casual sex, much of them using it as an outlet for daddy issues(the guy is taking advantage of the woman in an emotional state, in these cases)(hookup guys are also dealing with issues(usually)). I don't consider your FWB situation to be any issue at all, it's about as healthy as it gets if you both know each other already, as healthy as most marriages as I'm sure you'd like I acknowledge. But if you're learning or practicing pick up, while hooking up, it's likely in the category of taking advantage of the woman, not always, but most times, (technically, the guy is often being taken advantage of too(doesn't make it right though)).

Edited Thursday at 09:01 PM by Elliott

[UpperMaster]

23 hours ago, LordFall said:

Most humans have massive mental blocks stopping them from their goals, it's not really a thing out there stopping them. Also be careful with dating it's a very complex web of identity meaning that a lot of guys don't actually crave a woman they crave that feeling of being good enough inside. 

Right now we are facing a decentralization of dating(and work too) so it becomes a free for all of different ideologies. Idk how popular the blackpill thing is I don't follow it but I've seen clavicular pop up. The other big camp is the tradcon trashing everything every new trend in society and saying we gotta back to the way things are.

Individually as a single person your dating options have never been better for you. There's a greater cost of entry to getting a relationship but you can now date any kind of woman on earth or many of them if you'd like. 

What personal issues are you facing yourself in that area? 

Looksmaxxing is very normalized in my generation. Even if my age people don't say it explicitly, the conversation has shifted from "what do I say to her", to "how to look better/get it better shape", or atleast I think so. 

 

The issue I am facing is I am scared to approach, I can get a girlfriend, but not the girl I want. I am inexperienced and hope I can find someone lol.

 

 

[UpperMaster]

Interesting convo you guys

[Bittu]

On 19.2.2026 at 0:19 AM, LordFall said:

the AI will coach you on how to do it. 

Made me giggle.  

[LordFall]

19 hours ago, UpperMaster said:

Looksmaxxing is very normalized in my generation. Even if my age people don't say it explicitly, the conversation has shifted from "what do I say to her", to "how to look better/get it better shape", or atleast I think so. 

 

The issue I am facing is I am scared to approach, I can get a girlfriend, but not the girl I want. I am inexperienced and hope I can find someone lol.

 

 

Find other people to do it with. The time in my life I was most successful with dating is when I lived with two pickup guys, one of them being a club promoter. Slept with more women in 2 years than I had my entire life. 

 

21 hours ago, Elliott said:

A ton of women want casual sex, much of them using it as an outlet for daddy issues(the guy is taking advantage of the woman in an emotional state, in these cases)(hookup guys are also dealing with issues(usually)). I don't consider your FWB situation to be any issue at all, it's about as healthy as it gets if you both know each other already, as healthy as most marriages as I'm sure you'd like I acknowledge. But if you're learning or practicing pick up, while hooking up, it's likely in the category of taking advantage of the woman, not always, but most times, (technically, the guy is often being taken advantage of too(doesn't make it right though)).

Listen man you can try to be an armchair therapist and analyze why people want casual sex but that's pseudo-science at best and most likely an excuse to not take action. Be a good hearted human being that wants good for the women that you interact with and doesn't push boundaries without consent and I don't see how you can make an argument for not being moral. If you don't want a serious girlfriend and want to play the field and see what's out there; just say that. Plenty of women will say hey I'm looking for something serious or say cool neither am I and they will thank you for letting you blow them and swallow your cum(literally has happened to me before.)

Sex is fun, it's a simple truth that humans have trouble accepting for some reason. 

[Elliott]

31 minutes ago, LordFall said:

 

Listen man you can try to be an armchair therapist and analyze why people want casual sex but that's pseudo-science at best and most likely an excuse to not take action. Be a good hearted human being that wants good for the women that you interact with and doesn't push boundaries without consent and I don't see how you can make an argument for not being moral. If you don't want a serious girlfriend and want to play the field and see what's out there; just say that. Plenty of women will say hey I'm looking for something serious or say cool neither am I and they will thank you for letting you blow them and swallow your cum(literally has happened to me before.)

 

You're.... being an "armchair therapist" too by dismissing it. I think you harm women(and yourself) and what you promote harms women(and the men), and I think you do too hence why you're so defensive to minor comments on it by strangers.

I'm not saying it should be criminal, or that some instances aren't healthy, I think some are but I think people need to think more about doing this or not. You can't just write it off with a blanket 'okay', it definitely harms some people.

 

 

Clinical Advisor

https://www.clinicaladvisor.com

Sexually risky behavior more common in women with mental disorders than ...

Aug 10, 2017 — Women with a mental disorder are more sexually active than their male counterparts, and characteristics of antisocial personality disorder

 

 

Verywell Mind

https://www.verywellmind.com

What Is the Impact of Casual Sex on Mental Health?

Sep 23, 2025 — 7 Some studies have found a correlation between casual sex and a variety of negative mental health consequences such as anxiety, sadness

 

ScienceDirect.com

https://www.sciencedirect.com

Intimate Relationships and Sexual Behavior in Young Women ...

by PJ Burke · 2018 · Cited by 26 — Depressed young women may limit intimate relationships, yet engage in frequent and unsafe sex to cope with their symptoms.

 

 

" and Miller hypothesized that attachment style would be an important factor driving the pursuit of risky sexual behaviors. Specifically, they predicted that securely attached adults would tend to form long-term monogamous relationships, while insecurely attached adults would be more likely to have multiple concurrent sex partners and engage in condom-less sex. The result of their meta-analysis supported this hypothesis, but with an interesting twist.

 key finding was that insecurely attached adults, whether of the anxious or avoidant type, tended to have more lifetime sex partners and were more likely to have concurrent sex partners than those who were securely attached. This observation meshes well with the abundance of data showing that secure attachment is a key factor in successful monogamy. It seems that insecurely attached adults have more lifetime sex partners—at least in part—because they’re

 

 

other third of American infants seem to learn that their mothers aren’t very responsive to their needs, and as a result, develop an insecure attachment."

Edited 16 hours ago by Elliott

[LordFall]

@Elliott I just put your whole post on Gemini pro and it just summarizes it as having some valid point but falling into the correlation vs causation fallacy. 

 

The author is entirely correct that casual sex is not for everyone and that it is frequently used as an unhealthy coping mechanism by people struggling with depression or attachment wounds.

However, their attempt to weaponize this data to claim that casual sex inherently harms people, or that someone is "harming women" by being okay with it, fails. The studies they quoted prove only that mentally vulnerable people sometimes use sex to cope, not that consensual, safe casual sex between healthy adults is psychologically damaging.

Which goes back to my point to the onus on you as the individual to have casual sex in a responsible manner, not that casual sex causes damage to women or men. 

That was gemini logged into my own account. I actually copy pasted this entire thread into grok on an incognito mode as well, feel free to do the same and see if you can get it to debunk my argument in another way. I think I'm overall correct though.

This is a field I've been researching and testing for basically 14 years with a lot of effort so I'd be shocked if many of my takes were demonstrably false. I wouldn't doubt if I have some of the most game experience in the whole forum, especially with social circle and social media game. 

Edited 15 hours ago by LordFall