Why Has Dating Collapsed? The Real Reason No One Talks About

[Rafael Thundercat]

7 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I used to suffer from ambivalent or fearful avoidance. My relationships all followed a broken pattern of terrible boundaries stemming from being shown love from broken parents. I have since done a lot of work to break and heal previous patterns. I consider myself securely attached now.

Are you able to describe the process of your transformation? One girl that I almost started something recently is like this. I can see cleraly in her way of speaking and other behaviors. She is sun in Piscis to add to the situation.  Second to her own self knowing she need a lot of emotional suport and she "see everything at once in someone " i mean all the layers. Of course maybe she in not able to see her own layers. 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

2 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

Are you able to describe the process of your transformation? One girl that I almost started something recently is like this. I can see cleraly in her way of speaking and other behaviors. She is sun in Piscis to add to the situation.  Second to her own self knowing she need a lot of emotional suport and she "see everything at once in someone " i mean all the layers. Of course maybe she in not able to see her own layers. 

I dated a man who was securely attached. He showed me good, gentle boundaries and what it meant to show love and compassion toward another in an un-needy and unconditional way. It was a challenge for me, initially. I was very conflict avoidant in relationships, and followed a pattern of over-valuing my partner, and then devaluing. But not in a pathological way - the devalue/overvalue process was more my own internal dialogue that manifested in a gentle openness/closed off push pull my partner felt from me. This would be triggered when my partner would put up a boundary. Instead of hear the boundary and aim to adjust my behaviour, I received it as him pushing me away. The boundary was communicating to me 'I do not love you' instead of 'I love you, this other thing needs to change'. I confused someone communicating difficult things with pushing me away. On addition to this, I would close off when my partner made bids for contact if I felt I was being smothered; the smothering feeling felt as if I was loosing my sense of self (enmeshment) so I would pull back and become quite aloof to try to maintain my self. This was happening because I essentially didn't know who I was. So I was not able to clearly and calmly assert boundaries because... I didn't even know where I begun and my partner ended! It was all a mess. This is fearful/ambivalent attachment. Insecure/anxious or avoidant are the other two types. Ambivalent swings between anxious/avoidant.

It would be as simple as 'Hey, when I get home, I need some time to shower, get dressed and have a cup of tea before I get into my day. It is my unwinding process'. I would confuse something as simple as this with 'I do not love you'. Anything respectful request would be percieved as a threat to the union on the relationship. This stemmed from my own boundaries being violated by my family when younger.

Through repeated healthy boundary assertion, and a gentle caring securely attached partner who was VERY patient, I gradually learned to also assert my own boundaries. Because attachment issues are a manifestation of violating our own self sovereignty. We have no idea how to advocate for ourselves. Erasing the self in service of love and connection. When it actual fact, I had to learn a relationship was about 3 axis' : the relationship, him, and me. Each as individuals and to be respected as such.

Violating my own boundaries by not speaking up and asserting myself built the walls that destroyed all my previous relationships.

Overall I see this pattern all through dating. Most people who are securely attached find each other, pair off and become committed. Much of what remains in the dating pool consists of those with attachment issues who attract each other because they each contain the style of love they needed to heal (this was learned in early infancy through parent/child bonding forming the template for love). But they are fundamentally unable to receive that love due to misunderstanding what real, secure, love is. 

Not all in the dating market have attachment issues. But many who get stuck in patterns and jump from relationship to relationship do. PUA attracts insecurely attached women. It leverages off their weakness.

Edited 2 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[bazera]

57 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I dated a man who was securely attached. He showed me good, gentle boundaries and what it meant to show love and compassion toward another in an un-needy and unconditional way.

@Natasha Tori Maru Can you elaborate some more on this point? What made him securely attached in your experience? In what specific way did he show up as securely attached partner?

I'm trying to figure out what secure attachment means and how it shows up in practice.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

6 minutes ago, bazera said:

@Natasha Tori Maru Can you elaborate some more on this point? What made him securely attached in your experience? In what specific way did he show up as securely attached partner?

I'm trying to figure out what secure attachment means and how it shows up in practice.

He had a healthy upbringing from his parents. Secure attachment is all behaviour based.

He was emotionally available in that he could share what he felt without making it my job to fix it. Could communicate when he was hurt by me without turning it into a shut-down or blowup. Didn't disappear when shit got intense. Steady presence. A big one was that conflict did not threaten the bond we had - which was something that was totally foreign to me. Disagreement wasn't felt by me as abandonment, repair would happen because I didn't fear the relationship was going to implode. He trusted me unless given a reason not to; there were no shit tests or loyalty games. My personal independence wasn't taken as a rejection, and he was VERY encouraging of autonomy. 

Words and behaviour matched. BIG ONE. Ego didn't get in the way of the overall health of the relationship. Giving and receiving was no worries at all...

There is probably more but this is off the top of my head  

[Natasha Tori Maru]

With avoidance / anxiously attached individuals you will feel a push/pull hot/cold effect in the relationship. This is a big flag something isn't being communicated properly.

[bazera]

@Natasha Tori Maru

As I observe in my experience, those are basically all the qualities that you develop after you are okay with yourself, so to speak. That can be a lot of work for some people, but less work for others. As you said, it's mostly based on upbringing and emotional regulation ability, which are developed from childhood into adulthood.

What I like about relationships is that before them you are blind to the attachment patterns that you have, maybe even thinking of yourself as securely attached, and then all of a sudden you are in the middle of a relationship acting all over the place, expressing those deeply buried unconscious tendencies. It's a great mirror for self-reflection.

Quote

Words and behaviour matched. 

This is huge, even outside of a relationship.

That's why after my relationship ended, I realized that before I commit to a relationship with somebody else, the only relationship that I needed to figure out and make work was with myself, and matching my own words, promises, and behavior turns out to be critical for my own development, which probably translates into healthier and more securely attached relationships in the future.

Do you think one can start a relationship as a secure partner and then morph into anxious or avoidant over time depending on the partner? Or does secure attachment mean that you are stable all the way through?

Also, I've heard that non-securely attached people get bored around secure ones because there isn't enough drama for their ego to be entertained. What was your experience in that regard?

[Natasha Tori Maru]

1 hour ago, bazera said:

@Natasha Tori Maru

As I observe in my experience, those are basically all the qualities that you develop after you are okay with yourself, so to speak. That can be a lot of work for some people, but less work for others. As you said, it's mostly based on upbringing and emotional regulation ability, which are developed from childhood into adulthood.

What I like about relationships is that before them you are blind to the attachment patterns that you have, maybe even thinking of yourself as securely attached, and then all of a sudden you are in the middle of a relationship acting all over the place, expressing those deeply buried unconscious tendencies. It's a great mirror for self-reflection.

This is huge, even outside of a relationship.

Absolutely - we agree on the above. You essentially have to learn to love yourself first - but it is hard to do that if we do not know ourselves, heh! Relationships are a HUGE way to fast track self healing, love and discovery. If done right. IE being self reflective, having a critical and unbiased analysis of behaviour and a growth mindset. These qualities are hard to find though - many people do not want to go through the pains of growth. And that is a huge issue for many - growth doesn't always feel good. It is mostly confronting, painful and destabilising. For this reason, it is essential that whomever I date has a growth mindset. Good openness.

1 hour ago, bazera said:

Do you think one can start a relationship as a secure partner and then morph into anxious or avoidant over time depending on the partner? Or does secure attachment mean that you are stable all the way through?

Yes. I think it can go both ways. But if one is really self assured, high self esteem and healthy usually they will break off the relationship prior to being damaged or traumatised by it. I think the risk of someone reverting back to anxious or avoidant is more likely if they have had these issues in the past and 'healed' somewhat (like myself, for example). Someone who has been secure from the outset is much more likely to simple break the relationship off. They have such good boundaries and low tolerance for shit they put their foot down quickfast.

1 hour ago, bazera said:

Also, I've heard that non-securely attached people get bored around secure ones because there isn't enough drama for their ego to be entertained. What was your experience in that regard?

100% accurate. The push/pull, hot/cold mechanic is misinterpreted as love. Was by me - because that was the pattern of love I was shown as a child and adolescent. It was what I understood as love. Securely attached people seemed boring and dispassionate to me. So I basically self screened out anyone who was healthy (because I had no chemistry with them) and attracted people with attachment issues. Contrast that to now - I do not trust chemistry as much. I look at behaviour and words and observe people over months. Prior I would jump in WAY too quickly without vetting the person. And initially while I was healing I almost had to totally distrust who I was attracted to. I knew I was broken and that my attraction was NOT to be trusted.

You can see how the cycle repeats with attachment styles and people develop pathological thinking; they aren't even aware their own running scripts are corrupt programs that propel them to seek the wrong mal-formed version of love. Secure attracts secure, while avoidant and anxious are drawn irrevocably to each other.

I am no expert in attachment theory by any means. But since healing myself I can spot it in others a mile away!

Edited 12 minutes ago by Natasha Tori Maru