Deconstructing "thought" philosophizing

[Nick_98]

Hello Awakened Gurus,  Think about this post as thinking with you

This post is about thoughts , What are thoughts?

I was sitting their philosophizing asking myself What is a thought? In other words, What is the substance that made the thought? 

I then came to the conclusion that I should observe the phenomena rather than getting entangled to a fiction image of "substance" and "thought"

I kept watching as the thought emerges, But what does it mean " the thought emerged" ? That has sent me again to a fantasy bubble, a loop that every time I try to get away from, I get back inside it. 

Seriously. What is the substance of a thought ? , DAMN! Here we go again , I have sent myself into a bubble of fantasy , What is "substance"? and What is "thought"?

What made a thought ? , But what is a thought ? And moreover what's the experience like of thoughts emerging ? BUT WHAT IS EXPERIENCE ? These questions keep me sending back to the same bubble of fantasy 

Observe your thoughts ? WHO IS OBSERVING !? THOUGHT ? WHAT IS IT ? 

I'm looking for someone to guide me finding the truth, Each time i question myself I get sent into a bigger bubble of fantasy , they do not POP . They keep sending me to the same loop. 

What is your take?

 

[Inliytened1]

@Nick_98 let me ask you this.. why does it have to be something..the thought i mean.  Why can't it be just nothing.   Why do thoughts come? Magic - pure magic.  Why would anything exist at all? What if there was absolutely nothing? With no thoughts.   Could thoughts emerge from that if they did would u ask the same question. 

Edited 11 hours ago by Inliytened1

[Nick_98]

Just now, Inliytened1 said:

@Nick_98 let me ask you this.. why does it have to be something..the thought i mean.  Why can't it be just nothing. 

the question sends me to the same bubble of imagination, nothing is a fictional concept in my mind. How can I pop it ?

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Nick_98 said:

the question sends me to the same bubble of imagination, nothing is a fictional concept in my mind. How can I pop it ?

What do you mean. Nothing is fictional concept? I don't understand 

[Someone here]

Ultimately speaking of course anything is just what it is as it is in direct experience. Red is red .thought is thought .the taste of honey is the taste of honey. They are that and there is nothing more fundamental to ground them In.

Relatively speaking we can define things in relation to other things or by categories . Like red is a colour or a human is an animal. 

In case you're asking what's the substance of everything or what is anything at all ? It can't be said with words. 

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

Ultimately speaking of course anything is just what it is as it is in direct experience. Red is red .thought is thought .the taste of honey is the taste of honey. They are that and there is nothing more fundamental to ground them In.

Relatively speaking we can define things in relation to other things or by categories . Like red is a colour or a human is an animal. 

In case you're asking what's the substance of everything or what is anything at all ? It can't be said with words. 

I think he was an AI bot.

[Someone here]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I think he was an AI bot.

You mean OP ? I don't think it's AI .it reads like a curious human asking. 

[Inliytened1]

6 minutes ago, Someone here said:

You mean OP ? I don't think it's AI .it reads like a curious human asking. 

  2 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Nick_98 let me ask you this.. why does it have to be something..the thought i mean.  Why can't it be just nothing. 

the question sends me to the same bubble of imagination, nothing is a fictional concept in my mind. How can I pop it ?

AI.

[Someone here]

@Inliytened1 I don't see why you think that response was AI. He is saying there is no such thing as "nothing " in actuality and that "nothing " exists only in imagination or a concept. 

I'm not saying I agree..it's deeply misguided and cofused but that's what he thinks in any case . 

[Inliytened1]

8 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Inliytened1 I don't see why you think that response was AI. He is saying there is no such thing as "nothing " in actuality and that "nothing " exists only in imagination or a concept. 

I'm not saying I agree..it's deeply misguided and cofused but that's what he thinks in any case . 

Its not that misguided.  Nothing can only be a concept in our mind so there isnt anything to pop. It was just the lack of response and the human feeling that intuited it was spam.  But it its actually a very good question. 

[Someone here]

6 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Its not that misguided.  Nothing can only be a concept in our mind so there isnt anything to pop. It was just the lack of response and the human feeling that intuited it was spam.  But it its actually a very good question. 

"Nothing " is ultimate substance of everything ..where everything came from and what everything is .

 Where are the universe  ?Where is it existing?  Like we exist inside the universe.. right ? Then where does the universe exist ? Let's imagine that the universe exists in some sort of container that is bigger than it ...OK fine ..but that is just pushing the problem back one level ..because we have to ask where does that container exist ? And immediately you should see that we are facing the "turtles all the way up " situation here.  Existence has no beginning or end . And therefore it exists quite literally in the nowhere. 

But that's the macro level that I just explained..let's consider the micro level . What do you think is the building blocks of existence?  You might say atoms . But of course you have to ask what are the atoms made out of ? And again you are just pushing the problem down one level and we are facing a "turtles all the way down "again . 

We can do the same thing with Time as well .

At all dimensions you can look at it ..the substance of everything is nothing . The location of everything is nothing. The destination of everything is nothing .

Bur of course you can't see the nothing .

[Inliytened1]

9 minutes ago, Someone here said:

"Nothing " is ultimate substance of everything ..where everything came from and what everything is .

 Where are the universe  ?Where is it existing?  Like we exist inside the universe.. right ? Then where does the universe exist ? Let's imagine that the universe exists in some sort of container that is bigger than it ...OK fine ..but that is just pushing the problem back one level ..because we have to ask where does that container exist ? And immediately you should see that we are facing the "turtles all the way up " situation here.  Existence has no beginning or end . And therefore it exists quite literally in the nowhere. 

But that's the macro level that I just explained..let's consider the micro level . What do you think is the building blocks of existence?  You might say atoms . But of course you have to ask what are the atoms made out of ? And again you are just pushing the problem down one level and we are facing a "turtles all the way down "again . 

We can do the same thing with Time as well .

At all dimensions you can look at it ..the substance of everything is nothing . The location of everything is nothing. The destination of everything is nothing .

Bur of course you can't see the nothing .

Well that's just it.  So when we imagine nothing we hold a concept of nothing in our minds.  Even though it is the substance of everything we cant hold nothing in our minds because its nothing! And everything in our minds are thoughts.   So it was a brilliant question and the answer is its ok.  We cannot fathom nothing because our minds have to fathom something.  We cannot fathom absolute nothing.   What we fathom can only be a fabrication of nothing.  The thought of it.

Edited 8 hours ago by Inliytened1

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Well that's just it.  So when we imagine nothing we hold a concept of nothing in our minds.  Even though it is the substance of everything we cant hold nothing in our minds because its nothing! And everything in our minds are thoughts.   So it was a brilliant question and the answer is its ok.  We cannot fathom nothing because are minds have to fathom something.  We cannot fathom absolute nothing.   What we fathom can only be a fabrication of nothing.  The thought of it.

 

[Inliytened1]

6 minutes ago, Someone here said:

 

Love it 

[Inliytened1]

@Someone here Mindfuck alert- If Solpsism is true then you too are an NPC no different than AI. You just act alive  i bet you don't think im an NPC.  I have consciousness outside of you 

Edited 8 hours ago by Inliytened1

[Someone here]

@Inliytened1 I don't solipsize anymore 

[Joshe]

Maybe something to work with and build on: 

A thought is a unit of cognition. 

It is an intangible, abstract, representational unit of cognition that occurs in consciousness. Other units of cognition: mental images, concepts, intentions, judgements, predictions.

Perception is different than cognition. You receive it. 

Cognition = organization / manipulation - it works on what shows up in perception AND on prior cognitive products

Intuition is the perception of pre-conceptual cognitive organization.

1. Consciousness - the field of appearance and experience 
2. Perception - direct apprehension of what appears (external and internal)
3. Intuition - understanding before it becomes something you can think about - maybe unconscious cognition, lol.
4. Cognition - manipulable representations (thoughts)

Edited 8 hours ago by Joshe

[Inliytened1]

8 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Maybe something to work with and build on: 

A thought is a unit of cognition. 

It is an intangible, abstract, representational unit of cognition that occurs in consciousness. Other units of cognition: mental images, concepts, intentions, judgements, predictions.

Perception is different than cognition. You receive it. 

Cognition = organization / manipulation - it works on what shows up in perception AND on prior cognitive products

Intuition is the perception of pre-conceptual cognitive organization.

1. Consciousness - the field of appearance and experience 
2. Perception - direct apprehension of what appears (external and internal)
3. Intuition - understanding before it becomes something you can think about - maybe unconscious cognition, lol.
4. Cognition - manipulable representations (thoughts)

Intuition is the most valuable aspect of intelligence. 

[Joseph Maynor]

1 hour ago, Joshe said:

 

1. Consciousness - the field of appearance and experience 
2. Perception - direct apprehension of what appears (external and internal)
3. Intuition - understanding before it becomes something you can think about - maybe unconscious cognition, lol.
4. Cognition - manipulable representations (thoughts)

This is similar to Spinoza's Epistemology: (different ordering though)

1.  Intuition -- Consciousness of God/Nature in the Light of Eternity (Corrects both Reason and Sense Experience)
2.  Reason -- Corrects Sense Experience
3.  Sense Experience -- This is where the human ordinarily knows thru Thought and Extension, including emotions

Edited 6 hours ago by Joseph Maynor

[Hojo]

Its nothing. But its there and its real. Literally nothing is there witnessing the thought. The thought isnt about you, nothing. Its coming from a machine. Like the sound of an engine, not directed at you.

Edited 4 hours ago by Hojo