Truth-orientation

[Joshe]

Truth-orientation = the degree to which a person tolerates local destabilization in order to improve global model accuracy.

😂

I have a pipe dream of building a model of the mind, and this is just one module. It's a huge project though, and other things take priority, but damn, it would be fun to work on this full-time.

Cheers! 

[Leo Gura]

Truth-orientation is the degree to which a person cares about truth at all.

[Joshe]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Truth-orientation is the degree to which a person cares about truth at all.

Yeah, you're right. Maybe "truth capacity" is better to describe the mechanism and "truth-orientation" is better to name the value. 

Everyone says they care about the truth. But what actually determines it? Tolerance/capacity. 

 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Joshe said:

But what actually determines it? Tolerance/capacity. 

No, tolerance is a negative notion.

There is such a thing a passion and love for truth. To want to know for its own sake. This is a positive notion.

I don't "tolerate" truth. I love understanding reality.

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura can people who really want to know if UFOs are real, called truth seekers? They want to really know it for its own sake.

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, OBEler said:

@Leo Gura can people who really want to know if UFOs are real, called truth seekers? They want to really know it for its own sake.

Yes. But they could also just be into fantasy and conspiratorial thinking.

[Joshe]

On 1/9/2026 at 2:54 AM, Leo Gura said:

No, tolerance is a negative notion.

There is such a thing a passion and love for truth. To want to know for its own sake. This is a positive notion.

I don't "tolerate" truth. I love understanding reality.

But I was talking about a mechanism, not a value. 

Also, it's interesting that people are driven to truth by having a passion/love for it. I don't have feelings about truth.

I'm driven toward functional coherence and I update my models/beliefs immediately as new evidence crosses my credibility thresholds - regardless of the costs. But I never felt a "passion" or "love" for truth. Truth only matters because non-truth breaks functionality.

Edited 18 hours ago by Joshe

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Joshe said:

But I never felt a "passion" or "love" for truth. Truth only matters because non-truth breaks functionality.

That's because you're not truth-oriented.

Love of Truth or bust.

Edited 18 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Miguel1]

1 hour ago, Joshe said:

I'm driven toward functional coherence and I update my models/beliefs immediately as new evidence crosses my credibility thresholds - regardless of the costs. But I never felt a "passion" or "love" for truth. Truth only matters because non-truth breaks functionality.

Are you an ENFJ lol. Some years ago I had a deep realization, that I might have been so deep into spirituality and into spreading it from so early on, because I wanted to spread social harmony, as that is the main drive for my type. And spirituality at its highest and most ideal place, is the ultimate Social Harmony.

But as years go by, and I still thrive to go deeper in Truth seeking, despite it directly affecting my mission for social harmony negatively — since most peole are too unconscious to be taking in real Truth and Spiritiuality, and in fact, despises it.

[Joshe]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's because you're not truth-oriented.

Love of Truth or bust.

Deep truth can emerge without having a passion for it it directly. And I wonder, if "love of truth" is sometimes a story we tell about a more basic drive, such as just being highly analytical. 

I was diving into why I seek coherence and I and just realized coherence isn't actually what I seek. I'm after "convergence".

Coherence is the mechanism, convergence is the success condition.

Truth emerges from convergence.
Convergence requires coherence.
Coherence requires vigilance.

But Convergence is the goal. At least for me, I think. 

Truth is what you infer when your models stop needing revision. Convergence is when everything keeps pointing the same direction and reinforcing an underlying structure. Truth is what convergence looks like from the inside. Maybe truth isn't even the target. 

Now, why do I want convergence? 😂

Edited 14 hours ago by Joshe

[Joshe]

2 hours ago, Miguel1 said:

Are you an ENFJ lol. Some years ago I had a deep realization, that I might have been so deep into spirituality and into spreading it from so early on, because I wanted to spread social harmony, as that is the main drive for my type. And spirituality at its highest and most ideal place, is the ultimate Social Harmony.

I'm an INTJ. But I also once wanted to spread spirituality for social harmony, so maybe that has to do with an empathetic trait that MBTI doesn't track. I care about social harmony, I just don't want to be the one to implement it. I would love to architect it though, lol. I am aligned with your ideal and believe that the highest good is peace for all. 

2 hours ago, Miguel1 said:

But as years go by, and I still thrive to go deeper in Truth seeking, despite it directly affecting my mission for social harmony negatively — since most peole are too unconscious to be taking in real Truth and Spiritiuality, and in fact, despises it.

Yes, I can definitely see how this would be a challenge for an Fe dom, but I'm sure you're better positioned to deal with that challenge than most of us here, lol.

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Joshe said:

And I wonder, if "love of truth" is sometimes a story we tell about a more basic drive, such as just being highly analytical. 

Jesus man, YOU ARE TRUTH/LOVE.

Wake up!

Truth/Love is the convergence you seek.

Edited 8 hours ago by Leo Gura

[caspex]

The Yellow Pipe-Dream