Don't worry, we are all same in grave

[Mellowmarsh]

You said all you see are bones in the grave, not a person.

 

How do you know what you are looking at, who told you what you are looking at are bones?

[UnbornTao]

9 hours ago, James123 said:

Yes. Therefore, firstly question who is asking.

Okay.

[James123]

1 hour ago, Mellowmarsh said:

So the body/mind are thoughts. Yet you answered No, when questioned if they are thoughts.

 

You mentioned earlier on my thread, that the I can't see the knowledge and thoughts.

But you ignored my question, when I asked if the I can see an apple, or an orange?

 

Body is body, apple is apple and orange is orange. Knowledge is knowledge.

I don't need to see them, they are there without me.

[Mellowmarsh]

10 minutes ago, James123 said:

Body is body, apple is apple and orange is orange. Knowledge is knowledge.

I don't need to see them, they are there without me.

If you say so James, but I'm not understanding what you mean, when you say you don't need to see them, because they are just there.

My question to you is, if you don't need to see them, then do you need to know them?

Like, who told you that a body is a body, an apple is an apple, and that knowledge is knowledge?

Where has this ''Knowing'' come from? This is what I am trying to understand as I'm reading your posts.

Thanks for answering.

[James123]

2 hours ago, Mellowmarsh said:

If you say so James, but I'm not understanding what you mean, when you say you don't need to see them, because they are just there.

My question to you is, if you don't need to see them, then do you need to know them?

Like, who told you that a body is a body, an apple is an apple, and that knowledge is knowledge?

Where has this ''Knowing'' come from? This is what I am trying to understand as I'm reading your posts.

Thanks for answering.

How body born itself, learn itself and dies itself. Same goes for knowledge.

Did you choose to body to born? No. So, even claiming as knowledge that knowing or knowing as being belongs to control or ego.

Just imagine body is dead. What can you claim or know? 

[Mellowmarsh]

2 hours ago, James123 said:

Just imagine body is dead. What can you claim or know? 

How though, how can dead body be imagined. How can the death of the body be known in an imaginary sense? That’s all I’m trying to understand here. Surely, all you’ve ever known is the sensation of being consciousness, that sense of something existing? Something you call ( I ) your own experience of identity. 

Surely, you tell yourself you exist, you tell yourself I am I ?

Same goes for objects and things, you tell yourself an apple is an apple, or that knowledge is knowledge? Where else do labels come from,  they can only come from you ?

 

Edited Monday at 05:54 PM by Mellowmarsh

[James123]

4 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

How though, how can dead body be imagined. How can the death of the body be known in an imaginary sense?

Exactly. İt cant. Therefore, imagination belongs to body and mind, not You. 

Not even dead, You never even born. 

What was before psychical birth, You are still that, only body is born. You are always same. Body will die, You are always same.

Therefore, reincarnation or after life is none sense.

[Mellowmarsh]

3 minutes ago, James123 said:

Not even dead, You never even born. 

Can you know that you’re not even dead because you’ve never been born? 
 

There’s something that is able to say not even dead, you’re never even born… so this is known, right?

[Mellowmarsh]

James, when I was 6 years old I suddenly was overwhelmed by the realisation that I once didn’t exist, and that I am now existing. It was almost like I was remembering being dead and that I’d somehow popped alive. I can’t really understand this realisation. It’s just too weird to comprehend. That’s why I like talking to you about these things, because I think you know more about this stuff than me. 

[James123]

Just now, Mellowmarsh said:

Can you know that you’re not even dead because you’ve never been born? 
 

There’s something that is able to say not even dead, you’re never even born… so this is known, right?

İf I never born, how can I know anything? 

But, body born itself, breathe itself, know itself and live itself. 

Where is your place in the body? Just try to find it, point out.

[James123]

2 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

James, when I was 6 years old I suddenly was overwhelmed by the realisation that I once didn’t exist, and that I am now existing. It was almost like I was remembering being dead and that I’d somehow popped alive. I can’t really understand this realisation. It’s just too weird to comprehend. That’s why I like talking to you about these things, because I think you know more about this stuff than me. 

That's what enlightenment is. Being not dead, but not born. 

Do not try to understand, be witness, who tries to understand.

Step back of the body.

[James123]

6 hours ago, Mellowmarsh said:

You said all you see are bones in the grave, not a person.

 

How do you know what you are looking at, who told you what you are looking at are bones?

Listen, so simple. Body borns and will die, eyes sees, fingers writes. And any knowledge and experience is belongs to body itself. Because, when you look closely, forget even the functioning of the body (liver, heart etc..), you can't even control your thought process. 

So, it is not not thinking, empty mind etc... But it is leaving the body and mind alone. How can one do that? Simply observing, not reacting to any thoughts or experience (not as body, but as attachment to thoughts). Let thoughts appears, mind goes crazy, body hurts, gets hungry, just simply watch.

There is a body, mind and universe, but temporary, comes and goes. 

But You never.

[Mellowmarsh]

@James123 okay James, I’m listening and digesting everything that I am listening to. Thanks for helping. 
I will keep listening. I don’t mean to put you in the spotlight, okay, so sorry if that’s what I’ve been doing, it’s nothing personal really. I’m just trying to make sense of what I’m listening to, that’s all. 
 

When I ask the sky “ who am I” , the sky doesn’t answer. Same with the universe, it doesn’t answer either. So maybe Silence is the language of God.

I understand attachment to knowledge is a heavy burden to carry around, and that I can just let go of this attachment to knowledge anytime, and then only when I don’t make attachment my burden, am I releasing the unecessary burden leaving nothing but ultimate freedom to be without owning anything, by that very act of surrender. 
 

After all, the universe doesn’t care, so why should I care about anything, why should I carry the burden of caring all by myself. I could just drop it all. 

Edited Monday at 07:00 PM by Mellowmarsh

[Mellowmarsh]

48 minutes ago, James123 said:

That's what enlightenment is. Being not dead, but not born. 

Do not try to understand, be witness, who tries to understand.

Step back of the body.

Okay thanks, I think I understand what you’re saying here. 

[James123]

52 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

@James123 okay James, I’m listening and digesting everything that I am listening to. Thanks for helping. 
I will keep listening. I don’t mean to put you in the spotlight, okay, so sorry if that’s what I’ve been doing, it’s nothing personal really. I’m just trying to make sense of what I’m listening to, that’s all. 
 

When I ask the sky “ who am I” , the sky doesn’t answer. Same with the universe, it doesn’t answer either. So maybe Silence is the language of God.

I understand attachment to knowledge is a heavy burden to carry around, and that I can just let go of this attachment to knowledge anytime, and then only when I don’t make attachment my burden, am I releasing the unecessary burden leaving nothing but ultimate freedom to be without owning anything, by that very act of surrender. 
 

After all, the universe doesn’t care, so why should I care about anything, why should I carry the burden of caring all by myself. I could just drop it all. 

İt is actually so easy, the most easiest thing. When one actually understands the way to defeat ego, one doesn't act, spend effort or trying to understand something, one just simply watches, effortless.

This is just actually resting, even deeper then sleep. Therefore, it is so easy, therefore we cannot "do" it.

And by the time sometimes as a flash light, maybe firstly 1 second, after 1 minute and after 1 hour, body is it's own (and you disseappear ) only you appear when there is an attachment. 

That's actually what living as  enlightened being is. Not something fancy, glamorous etc... But completely disseappearing.

[Joseph Maynor]

@James123  You seem to take the position that the body exists, what about the mind and/or Consciousness, do these exist?

[James123]

4 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

@James123  You seem to take the position that the body exists, what about the mind and/or Consciousness, do these exist?

Anything you know of, speak of, experience of temporary.

[Joseph Maynor]

1 minute ago, James123 said:

Anything you know of, speak of, experience of temporary.

Is Consciousness or Awareness temporary?

[James123]

4 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Is Consciousness or Awareness temporary?

As names, yes. But, Be, no. Because, it can't be named, known or experience. Mind can't grasp/enter.

[Joseph Maynor]

8 minutes ago, James123 said:

As names, yes. But, Be, no. Because, it can't be named, known or experience. Mind can't grasp/enter.

But there is a You that goes beyond mind, right?  What is That/This which can be named and also does in fact Exist, if anything?