Why the US wants to steal Venezuela's oil& resources?

[zazen]

Westerners can’t handle looking in the mirror at their own empire. Everything that counters the notion of their own goodness is scapegoated or obfuscated away to external actors. Every red pill and  dose of realism is simply a Russia / Chinese commie talking point.

Libs are ideological about not being idealogical - the irony.

Geopolitics is a cold game. Conflating the everyday person with what the empire does for its own goals of power preservation and accumulation is what gets people. We should separate the empire state from the nation state - that can help resolve the cognitive dissonance.

It also requires cunning and strategy. If that gets to people because it’s “immoral” then this game isn’t for them.

@Daniel Balan Put yourself in the shoes as the leader of Europe (with knowledge of all its strengths and weaknesses). What would be the best strategy to get stronger and sovereign (not to be dictated to by the US, China or Russia)? 
 

Think of yourself as a Machiavelli with Bhuddist characteristics - a “good” Machiavelli. We obviously need to be economically strong - cheap energy is a key aspect and undercurrent to that.

Only ideological fools with no tactfulness would cut themselves off cold turkey from cheap Russian energy without a replacement that allows them to be and remain economically competitive. We now have Merz saying “Pax Americana” is over. Even if correct (mostly) - that doesn’t mean you blurt that out angering the hegemon your security architecture and now energy security depends on.

But being strategic and not disclosing all your cards would require being “immoral” and non-straight with our so called ally. It would probably be wiser to maintain good relations with both sides - benefiting from what both have to offer - whilst building your own capacity and stregnth (diversifying energy dependence) and having military sovereignty via internal production.

I think Europes been cushioned for decades not having to think about survival pressures or power dynamics thanks to being under the umbrella of a superpower. That’s weakened our very own ability to be strategic and deal with the realities of power dynamics. It’s like being in a cave and all of a sudden going into the light where your eyes aren’t used to it.

Europe itself will need to be more cohesive. It’s going to be tested. Is Britain, France or Poland okay with Germany re-militarizing itself with a massive army build out? I’m sure that’s not going to sit so easily with them and will cause historical anxiety. Without the US who leads the command structure? That position will be fought over. US having that position means being their bitch - which Europe wishes it didn’t have to be - but it was and is tolerated because the alternative is facing inter-European rivalry.

Europe complains about being the US’s junior partner while quietly fearing a post-US security order even more. This is also why they do everything to keep US in the fight against Russia and come across almost war mongering in affect. They need US invested in Europe to save them from themselves - having to face the reality of survival they are not accustomed to and fear their lack of cohesion would not fair well with if left on their own.

The US is obviously exploiting this vulnerability. Their now only giving a measly €800 million in aid to Ukraine (over 2 years) whilst Europe now has to foot he bill into the tune of billions.

Edited 12 hours ago by zazen

[Daniel Balan]

20 minutes ago, LoneWonderer said:

So what's your theory? I'm open to hearing you out. Also notice that Russia could be weaponizing this ee truth about the west in it's propaganda campaigns. 

 

My theory is this: All of these Russian narratives are full of bullshit, falsehood and downright evil. 

They need to paint the west as some imperialist greedy thief to then justify their own Russian collonial imperialism so that they can colonize eastern Europe once again with their corruption, backwardness, theft and dictatorship. Russia is the biggest imperialist, they just want to turn eastern Europe into an ideological buffer so that Russia itself is shielded by phisical buffer territories from liberalism. 

The western "imperialism" is just business. They give the developing countries something, the developing countries give something back. I don't see anything wrong in that, the book fails to mention that the domestic politiclal class from each eastern European country, that was forged in the soviet system btw, is what did the theft and that made some countries have worst outcomes. 

[Daniel Balan]

41 minutes ago, zazen said:

Westerners can’t handle looking in the mirror at their own empire. Everything that counters the notion of their own goodness is scapegoated or obfuscated away to external actors. Every red pill and  dose of realism is simply a Russia / Chinese commie talking point.

Libs are ideological about not being idealogical - the irony.

Geopolitics is a cold game. Conflating the everyday person with what the empire does for its own goals of power preservation and accumulation is what gets people. We should separate the empire state from the nation state - that can help resolve the cognitive dissonance.

It also requires cunning and strategy. If that gets to people because it’s “immoral” then this game isn’t for them.

@Daniel Balan Put yourself in the shoes as the leader of Europe (with knowledge of all its strengths and weaknesses). What would be the best strategy to get stronger and sovereign (not to be dictated to by the US, China or Russia)? 
 

Think of yourself as a Machiavelli with Bhuddist characteristics - a “good” Machiavelli. We obviously need to be economically strong - cheap energy is a key aspect and undercurrent to that.

Only ideological fools with no tactfulness would cut themselves off cold turkey from cheap Russian energy without a replacement that allows them to be and remain economically competitive. We now have Merz saying “Pax Americana” is over. Even if correct (mostly) - that doesn’t mean you blurt that out angering the hegemon your security architecture and now energy security depends on.

But being strategic and not disclosing all your cards would require being “immoral” and non-straight with our so called ally. It would probably be wiser to maintain good relations with both sides - benefiting from what both have to offer - whilst building your own capacity and stregnth (diversifying energy dependence) and having military sovereignty via internal production.

I think Europes been cushioned for decades not having to think about survival pressures or power dynamics thanks to being under the umbrella of a superpower. That’s weakened our very own ability to be strategic and deal with the realities of power dynamics. It’s like being in a cave and all of a sudden going into the light where your eyes aren’t used to it.

Europe itself will need to be more cohesive. It’s going to be tested. Is Britain, France or Poland okay with Germany re-militarizing itself with a massive army build out? I’m sure that’s not going to sit so easily with them and will cause historical anxiety. Without the US who leads the command structure? That position will be fought over. US having that position means being their bitch - which Europe wishes it didn’t have to be - but it was and is tolerated because the alternative is facing inter-European rivalry.

Europe complains about being the US’s junior partner while quietly fearing a post-US security order even more. This is also why they do everything to keep US in the fight against Russia and come across almost war mongering in affect. They need US invested in Europe to save them from themselves - having to face the reality of survival they are not accustomed to and fear their lack of cohesion would not fair well with if left on their own.

The US is obviously exploiting this vulnerability. Their now only giving a measly €800 million in aid to Ukraine (over 2 years) whilst Europe now has to foot he bill into the tune of billions.

The IMF, the world bank and other financial institutions, and capitalism itself ain't no empire tool that wants to economically exploit developing countries like Eastern Europe. What do you expect, free money for your "sovereign" politicians to steal, politicians that have been modelled after the soviet school system? The soviet school system politicians now in Europe call themselves "sovereignist" and guess which politicians they hate the most? The liberal young politicians that have been modelled the liberal democracy school.

This means your "empire" narative is bullshit and frankly just Russian propaganda. I'm done talking with you on that subject, the west is not at war with anybody at the moment, yet Russia is waging its imperialist war in Ukraine and China is about to invade Taiwan because Taiwan is proving that liberal democracy is more effective and provides better results than a backward retarded dictatorship. This much is clear. And America is almost de facto out of the west because of Donal Trump, Donald Trump's America is not the west, it is closer ideologically to Russia than Europe, if that mf invades Venezuela is because he is a greedy devil that in an imperialist fashion, wants someone else's oil. That is imperial behaviour, the IMF and World Bank and western capital is what made developing countries break free from the Soviet imperialism, freezing in time for 50 years  half of Europe is the biggest deed of Imperialism. 

2. If I were the leader of Eastern Europe I'd make sure that above all, the rule of law should be in pristine condition, something that is totally absent in both China and Russia and as of late the US.

So Rule of Law, independent judiciary system, politics to have 0 involvement in justice, strong courts that severely punish corruption and so on. This is what makes a country sovereign, not the utter corruption that happens in both Russia and China. In China you are only punished by the law if you don't have connections to the communist party, what sovereignity is that? That is a joke, not sovereignity.

I will make sure I cut all Russian gas until Russia becomes a liberal democracy. Putin's gas is cheap? That gas is the most expensive gas on the planet, people pay with their freedoms for it, pay with their lives even, because if you are not friends with the corrupt elites that have permission from Putin to do whatever they want, those elites can litteraly kill you if you annoy them and pay no legal price whatsoever. If the Luigi guy killed a ceo that had beef with Putin and Luigi had connections to Putin's loyalists he would be hailed as a "patriot", no legal punishment would be applied to him in a county governed in a system like the Russian one. The biggest mistake Europeans made is being energy dependent on Russia, had Europe cut ties with Russia all together since they started invading their neighbours in the 90's, now Ukraine wouldn't have been ethnically genocided by the Russians. Europe feed this war machine, all the way back from the 90's. The fact that you don't see that speaks volumes about your pro-imperialist agenda. You talk non stop about the so called "economic imperialism of the west" but in reality you are just gaslighting us by making us looking away from the real imperialism that is done by both Russia and China combined.

If Russia and China aren't imperialists, why tf are they trying their hardest to colonize the minds of Westerners via TikTok with endless Russian propaganda? I've never seen the west trying to do the same in Russia or China! Hell, the west doesn't even try to colonize with propaganda even their own citizens, in the last 5 years I've been only exposed to narratives such as these you spread yourself, only 1 in 1000 people talk like I do nowadays, everyone's mind has been sieged by the cognitive war that the Russians and the Chinese do in order to conquer the minds of the western population, and the result of this conquest will show up in elections because the Russians and the Chinese have a Trojan horse party or candidate in every western country, those Trojan horses then must destroy western liberal democracies. If that is not imperial behaviour, I don't think anything is.

 

[Daniel Balan]

Also, the Europeans have neglected their militaries because unlike China and Russia and the US, they are no longer interested in imperial conquest, the European Union is a stage green form of government, stage green no longer wants to imperialy conquer other states, the same way Russia, China and the US do! And regarding wars in Europe, regarding Poland and France being afraid of Germany, this is a joke, Germany is a stage green country by all measurements, stage green doesn't invade its neighbours, only stage red/blue and to some extents stage orange. 

[Twentyfirst]

Because the US is broke and they don't know how to get out of debt by their own merit. They got in debt because of endless war and they will get out of debt by endless war. USA = WAR

[Elliott]

1 hour ago, Daniel Balan said:

Also, the Europeans have neglected their militaries because unlike China and Russia and the US, they are no longer interested in imperial conquest, the European Union is a stage green form of government, stage green no longer wants to imperialy conquer other states, the same way Russia, China and the US do! 

Because the u.s. does the dirty work for them. Europe sent military to the Middle East during the recent wars too.

Edited 9 hours ago by Elliott

[Daniel Balan]

35 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Because the u.s. does the dirty work for them. Europe sent military to the Middle East during the recent wars too.

The only reason being, that if they didn't send their militaries to the middle east, the US wouldn't have helped in case Russia strikes Europe, all of Europe knew there weren't any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Also, France, Germany and others didn't participate at all. The UK sent the most troops.

[Daniel Balan]

56 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Because the u.s. does the dirty work for them. Europe sent military to the Middle East during the recent wars too.

Also, what dirty work did America do for Europe? Throughout the 90's, the 2000's and 2010's with what did America help with Europe militarily? Russia was weak, and all the other internal conflicts were settled in the second world war! Once the cold war was over only Europe was dragged into the US's stupid wars, Europe didn't wage war on anybody since the end of the cold war. The Iraq war was America's business, Europe helped to be helped back when Russia will invade. 

And now when the Russians are strong again, guess what America does, almost says out loud in their national security documents that Europe is the enemy, not Russia. And in case the Russians strike Europe I bet that America will let Europe bleed dry, wow thanks, you really did the dirty work for us.

Guess the Europeans should have never helped you with anything since you only care about screwing your allies. 

Edited 8 hours ago by Daniel Balan

[Daniel Balan]

Europe's biggest mistake was thinking that once the cold war ended, they wouldn't need to have a strong military because Russia will be friendly to them.

[Elliott]

1 hour ago, Daniel Balan said:

The only reason being, that if they didn't send their militaries to the middle east, the US wouldn't have helped in case Russia strikes Europe, all of Europe knew there weren't any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Also, France, Germany and others didn't participate at all. The UK sent the most troops.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org

French forces in Afghanistan

As of 1 November 2009, 4,000 French personnel have been deployed to Afghanistan,

 

 

[Elliott]

59 minutes ago, Daniel Balan said:

Europe's biggest mistake was thinking that once the cold war ended, they wouldn't need to have a strong military because Russia will be friendly to them.

It's about not being a threat to others, it should've  fostered trust.

[Elliott]

1 hour ago, Daniel Balan said:

Also, what dirty work did America do for Europe?

Controlling the energy and trade markets. Military in the middle east, Asia, Africa, south America. 

[Daniel Balan]

7 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Controlling the energy and trade markets. Military in the middle east, Asia, Africa, south America. 

They controlled the markets for their own profit, the US doesn't give a damn about Europe! And what you did with your military in the aforementioned regions you did for your own benefit, you didn't wage stupid wars for Europe, you waged them for your own benefit. 

[Daniel Balan]

13 minutes ago, Elliott said:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org

French forces in Afghanistan

As of 1 November 2009, 4,000 French personnel have been deployed to Afghanistan,

 

 

I was talking about Iraq.

[Daniel Balan]

13 minutes ago, Elliott said:

It's about not being a threat to others, it should've  fostered trust.

If buying tons of oil from Russia, If building lots of new huge pipelines to buy gas from Russia isn't fostering trust, I don't think anything is. Europe behaved decent to Russia, it all came crashing down when Ukraine wanted to export the liberal democracy to its territory and Russia felt threatened that if liberal democracy succeeded in Ukriane, it will also spill into Russia. That's the only reason they are now committing genocide in Ukraine, to teach them a lesson that if you are a neighbour of Russia, you don't get to choose your government framework independently, you choose your government framework that Russia allows you to have. All this NATO expansion is just Russian gaslighting, the NATO expansion happened precisely because the countries that joined after the cold war knew that they would have the fate of today's Ukraine if they wouldn't have joined NATO while Russia was still weak. 

[Elliott]

1 hour ago, Daniel Balan said:

If buying tons of oil from Russia, If building lots of new huge pipelines to buy gas from Russia isn't fostering trust, I don't think anything is. Europe behaved decent to Russia, it all came crashing down when Ukraine wanted to export the liberal democracy to its territory and Russia felt threatened that if liberal democracy succeeded in Ukriane, it will also spill into Russia. That's the only reason they are now committing genocide in Ukraine, to teach them a lesson that if you are a neighbour of Russia, you don't get to choose your government framework independently, you choose your government framework that Russia allows you to have. All this NATO expansion is just Russian gaslighting, the NATO expansion happened precisely because the countries that joined after the cold war knew that they would have the fate of today's Ukraine if they wouldn't have joined NATO while Russia was still weak. 

Ya. It also helps with China and other countries though. But really, if Europe had a more offensive military things could've been worse than what they were, right off the bat it takes money out of taxpayers pockets and the economy, but Russia also could've invested more in military if Europe did, and done more sabotage, allied closer to china,..... could've been worse, should've been better.

[Elliott]

1 hour ago, Daniel Balan said:

They controlled the markets for their own profit, the US doesn't give a damn about Europe! And what you did with your military in the aforementioned regions you did for your own benefit, you didn't wage stupid wars for Europe, you waged them for your own benefit. 

The u.s. helps European companies, think Shell, BP, banking,...

[Daniel Balan]

10 minutes ago, Elliott said:

The u.s. helps European companies, think Shell, BP, banking,...

You talk about that as if it were done out of charity. Of course Europeans and Americans do business, there is perfectly fine to do business, but don't talk like you do anything for free, because you aren't doing anything for free. 

Edited 5 hours ago by Daniel Balan

[Elliott]

39 minutes ago, Daniel Balan said:

You talk about that as if it were done out of charity. Of course Europeans and Americans do business, there is perfectly fine to do business, but don't talk like you do anything for free, because you aren't doing anything for free. 

"The U.S. and Shell are currently navigating complex energy relations with Venezuela, focusing on Shell's Dragon gas field project to supply Trinidad, with the U.S. recently granting licenses for such activities despite broader sanctions, allowing Shell to develop this offshore resource under specific U.S. Treasury waivers"

 

"BP is heavily involved in Iraq's oil sector, notably through a major $25 billion deal signed in 2025 to redevelop the Kirkuk oil fields in northern Iraq,"

Edited 5 hours ago by Elliott