Universe, qualia, enlightenment

[Breakingthewall]

 

Let’s consider the following conceptual framework to understand what “enlightenment” actually is. Bit long, as short as it can be. 

First, we have a coherent universe, a system of relations governed by universal laws that organize energy, matter and cosmic events, allowing increasingly complex relational systems to arise. Vibrations of fields that we call energy, atoms, stars, planets, complex molecules… until we reach a fundamental phase transition we call life.

Life is the appearance of self-legislated systems, that is, systems with their own internal laws and a built-in drive for self-preservation. This is a mode of existence absolutely different from everything that came before it.

Fields, energy, stars, planets, these are what they are because of the universal laws that govern them. These laws make them inevitable. But life does not operate within that same frame: it is not the mere result of gravity + the strong nuclear force + electromagnetism, etc. Rather, within that framework of physical laws, life is the emergence of a universe with its own interior laws. It does not break the fundamental laws of physics; it operates according to them but creates, on top of them, a new set of exclusive internal laws. In effect, life is a universe inside a larger universe. And if the “main universe” is probably itself a subsystem inside something larger, nothing suggests this is impossible.

This new universe, with its own internal laws, produces an essential duality between inside and outside. A living organism must preserve itself in order to be, and this necessity forces selective interaction with the environment. A living organism is not a collection of atoms, but a pattern that places those atoms in exact positions and functions, a vast map of processes occurring at different levels continuously. Can you see the map? Because here comes the interesting part.

The interaction between the interior and the exterior inevitably produces what we call qualia, subjective experience. Qualia is the interface between these two universes: the living system and the external universe. In simple organisms it is very basic, impulses that distinguish heat from cold, high from low mineral concentrations, light from dark, desirable from undesirable. As the organism increases in complexity, this interface does the same: it expands, becomes richer, more nuanced. The qualia of a bacterium is not the qualia of a plant, or a worm, or a fish. With each phase transition, the organism’s range of movement and possible actions increases exponentially, and the interface connecting the two universes expands proportionally.

This interface is essentially a third universe, supported by the biological base and shaped by the external world. It is not more or less real than the main universe or the secondary universe we call life, there are no categories, only expressions of reality. Qualia, subjective experience, is the reality, just as the universe is reality and the organism is reality. Qualia is a stable cloud of processes and relations, with a defined form.

When living organisms reach large degrees of complexity, as in the case of a rat, qualia, the subjective cloud, begins to take the shape of an individual that desires, fears, enjoys and suffers. This stable cloud of quantum-level processes begins to recognize itself vaguely as a proto-self that must defend itself from destruction and preserve its lineage.

Complexity continues to advance, and new beings appear in which a further phase transition takes place: a new dimension of being emerges: symbolic mind. A mind that transcends rigid conditioning tied to matter and begins to operate beyond it.

This symbolic mind is a cloud of qualia/processes capable of operating through symbols/forms created within this cloud that emulate both the biological reality that sustains it and the external reality in which it must operate and adapt. Symbolism gives rise to what we call memory: a mega-symbol composed of countless smaller symbols, stable enough to create the image of change unfolding in a temporal line. It is supported by atavistic impulses implanted by evolution: the absolute need to survive, belong to the group, reproduce, influence, avoid harm, and pursue pleasure.

This system, this quantum cloud of enormous complexity and perfect synchrony, is what we call consciousness.

This is the highest peak of complexity we can observe. And now comes the next phase: the deconstruction of complexity.

This hyper-complex system, consciousness, is a universe in itself, and as such, an expression of reality. That is, it is reality. This being that knows itself, that defines itself, can deconstruct itself and return to its essential nature. This is simple, because what it truly is is its essential nature.

A bit of meditation: first, we remove the process called memory, which creates a temporal line, and we situate ourselves in the absolute now. Simple: deactivate symbolism, which is to say, deactivate meaning. Without meaning there is no time. It is that direct. But of course ,there are energetic forces behind the meaning, fear, desire. Simple, but not so easy to face them. 

Second, we remove sensory input. Obviously it cannot be eliminated, but it is relatively easy to withdraw relevance from it. Without becoming and without sensation, what remains is something naked, alone, singular, an odd structure, a kind of energetic barrier, a black hole that absorbs everything: the self.

What is the self? Is it something? A witness? A witness of what? Of experience? But what is the self without experience? Here is the key: the self is the final door that keeps the system called consciousness closed. This is very difficult to explain or think about, because the one who explains and thinks is the self, or better, the self is the apparent center of all those process. 

At a certain moment, when the energetic flow of the entire system aligns in a certain way, the closure dissolves, the self collapses as a center, and then it ceases to close. The ultimate nature of reality reveals itself. What reality is before that enormous tangle of molecules, life, rats and selves: absolute openness, total being.

Total being is not conscious or unconscious, it is total. “Conscious” only means a process that registers what is happening. Without any register, there is no change, there is no sense of self, there is not what we call "consciousness", there is being. Being is equally total with or without that process. But in that process the self recognizes that what it truly is… is total being. Because everything that exists is that, and all the dance of form is simply the dance of form, the inevitable expression of what has no limits. Total being is not movement, but what makes movement inevitable. It is not conscious or unconscious, not moving or still; none of these categories touch the openness. It is totality, and totality perceives itself through the very system created within itself called consciousness, and recognizes itself in its essence, in its openness, in its unlimited nature. 

One thing is very important: any identification must fall. That's more difficult that it seems. Consciousness is an identification. Love, god, infinite, everything, glory. Identifications. All belong to the self, to the center. The absolute is absolutely naked. It's not nothing nor something, it's open. 

 

 

[Ishanga]

@Breakingthewall Nice!!!

Now for the Ya Butts below:)

[LastThursday]

@Breakingthewall I enjoyed that. As I like to say: life is matter with an identity. Life is also an epiphenomenon, it is made of dead matter that is constantly flowing and self-organising, the patterns it makes is life itself.

Life resists entropy and change to maintain itself. But fundamentally all matter has mass which also resists change of motion: inertial mass is in one sense "alive". Matter has the identity of "mass".

[Breakingthewall]

@Ishanga @LastThursday thanks for reading. 

10 hours ago, LastThursday said:

Life resists entropy and change to maintain itself. But fundamentally all matter has mass which also resists change of motion: inertial mass is in one sense "alive". Matter has the identity of "mass".

Matter is a form of vibration of reality that spontaneously organizes itself into increasingly complex patterns, eventually reaching extremely complex forms like amino acids or self-replicating RNA molecules. No one knows how the leap from these molecules to self-organizing systems with their own laws, called life, occurs, but the point is that life is no more "alive" than a hydrogen atom; it is simply more complex, at a different stage of complexity. Just as a bacterium and a cat are at different stages of complexity. I suppose this tendency toward extreme levels of complexity can be explained by entropy, which forces a closed system to inevitably tend toward disorder, but always with pockets of extreme order that ultimately lead to greater entropy. 

It seems that at certain critical points, reality shifts phase, inevitably finding the most optimal path. Unfortunately, science has its limits for now and cannot see beyond them, but by logical deduction, reality functions through symmetry breaks and an intrinsic tendency to re-establish that symmetry, not going back, but seeking possible stable coherences. It seems to be an intrinsic property of reality.

 

[LastThursday]

@Breakingthewall obviously we're not going to solve "life" in a few paragraphs on a forum. My intuition tells me that there is a continuum between dead and alive matter. Viruses for example are on the cusp and maybe there's matter more dead or more alive than a virus. All life seems to have the ability to overcome disruption and keep itself intact. 

In digital communications it's possible to have forward error correction on a message, so that if it is corrupted in transit, then the original message can be recovered. For life to be self-sustaining against being corrupted, all it would need is an error correcting mechanism. If the error correction was strong enough it could sustain itself indefinitely. In a sense an organism "knows itself" so that it can "correct itself", it has an identity. Non-living matter in general doesn't have this self-correcting ability. 

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, LastThursday said:

digital communications it's possible to have forward error correction on a message, so that if it is corrupted in transit, then the original message can be recovered. For life to be self-sustaining against being corrupted, all it would need is an error correcting mechanism. If the error correction was strong enough it could sustain itself indefinitely. In a sense an organism "knows itself" so that it can "correct itself", it has an identity. Non-living matter in general doesn't have this self-correcting ability. 

Yes, it knows itself in the sense that it preserves itself from the outside world. That's what we call life: a system that has the will to be, that actively resists attempts to make it cease to be. 

This is the great mystery. Life wants to be. And what goes against that is suffering. Life is desire.

Let's see, If we observe the universe, we see that reality seeks form; there is a structural tendency toward differentiation, toward the formation of form, toward the exploration of possible configurations. This is an inherent property of the universe.

The universe does not resist threats because it has no exterior, but it tends toward complex structures; it is a proto-desire. Life is a universe within the universe, and this proto-desire translates into direct desire. There is an outside world from which to protect oneself. The structural property of the universe of being concentrates, amplifies, and becomes defensive. It is a total phase leap, the greatest possible leap. 

Then suffering appears, it's the reaction to that which prevents one from being. Human psychological suffering is exactly the same nature as the reaction of a cell repairing itself when damaged, only amplified and symbolized. Life is fundamentally the will to be, and this inevitably involves suffering. But this will to be can't be something alien to the universe, it's the fundamental nature of the universe with an exterior. 

The point is that the universe does not merely allow form; its dynamics structurally favor the emergence of stable configurations. Symmetry breaking is not accidental but intrinsic to how reality unfolds.

After each rupture of symmetry, the system reorganizes into new coherent structures with their own local symmetries. This is not intention or purpose, but a structural tendency toward stability and coherence. But the real point is: structural tendency equates intention, there is no difference. Not because there is an entity that desires, but because this is the nature of reality 

Edited Saturday at 08:18 PM by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

Btw, this framework does not aim to define reality or capture the whole. Its sole function is to avoid introducing conceptual fissures that impede the individual's natural openness to the totality. This openness is neither conceptual nor constructed; it is real. The framework is merely a tool to prevent it from being closed off. If there are absolute limits, like god, consciousness, or anything, the door will be closed. Absolutely always. The openess requires a open frame. 

[LastThursday]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes, it knows itself in the sense that it preserves itself from the outside world. That's what we call life: a system that has the will to be, that actively resists attempts to make it cease to be.

This is the genius of life, it is simultaneously separate and an integral part of the universe. It's separateness comes from its ability to maintain a set of patterns of matter through time. The actual matter itself rushes like a river through an organism, so it isn't the matter that is alive, it is the patterns it makes. The patterns have a type of will, but like a fractal have a repeated structure through time as well as space. That fractal is able to "absorb" being disrupted by that rush of matter and recover. A fractal is a never ending feedback system, that creates unlimited complexity from simple ingredients: matter and laws of nature.

[Breakingthewall]

On 13/12/2025 at 11:40 PM, LastThursday said:

This is the genius of life, it is simultaneously separate and an integral part of the universe. It's separateness comes from its ability to maintain a set of patterns of matter through time. The actual matter itself rushes like a river through an organism, so it isn't the matter that is alive, it is the patterns it makes. The patterns have a type of will, but like a fractal have a repeated structure through time as well as space. That fractal is able to "absorb" being disrupted by that rush of matter and recover. A fractal is a never ending feedback system, that creates unlimited complexity from simple ingredients: matter and laws of nature.

Great insights. What life is is the pattern that orders matter, not matter itself. But the point is that life is an expression of the nature of reality, just like the universe. Life emerge in the universe, so it express the nature of universe, you can understand the nature of universe and reality observing life. 

It can be said that reality will always fill a possible niche. There is a marked tendency toward expansion, and if nothing prevents a new phase of complexity, it will occur. Reality balances itself, seeking the most optimal equilibrium possible, the option that enables the development of its full potential. In the case of life, this manifests as evolution, a desire for permanence, self-preservation, and reproduction, since life operates in duality.

The universe is not a closed organism and therefore does not operate solely on the basis of survival, but its essential behavior is symmetrical to that of life. It expresses its potential, finds the optimal equilibrium, and fills the available niches of complexity. 

For example, there's the mystery of fine-tuning. The cosmological constant or the strong nuclear force are fine-tuned with millimeter precision. If their values changed even slightly, the universe would collapse. Observing life, one might deduce that these fundamental laws are not imposed from the outside, but rather have been adjusted by the intrinsic tendency of reality toward the point of greatest equilibrium within the inherent and inevitable instability caused by the absence of limits.

[Someone here]

@Breakingthewall thank you for writing this.

I don't have problem with explaining the universe materialistically back to the big bang ..but if you corner a scientist or physicist and ask him well what was before the big bang or what caused it they will tell you we don't know because physics can't apply before certain constants like Planck time etc . So really science just pushes the question of why anything at all back one step and another step .where did consciousness come from ? Some neurons and a brain..where did the brain come from ? Evolution ..how is it possible that living organisms look desin-like without a creator or God?..well we live in one universe out of infinite multiverse and it's invetiable that one of them must be as it is . Tautology. It is like this because it is the only way it could be .then why get lost in endless scientific conceptualising instead of saying existence is infinite being or pure irreducible magic ?

Edited yesterday at 03:39 AM by Someone here

[Breakingthewall]

10 hours ago, Someone here said:

then why get lost in endless scientific conceptualising instead of saying existence is infinite being or pure irreducible magic ?

Seeking an external agent, like consciousness or God, and calling it non-duality when it's absolutely dual has already said a lot; it's the shortcut taken by some who want to simplify things to feel safe . It could belegitimate if it works for them and their needs are covered, that's the purpose of religion.

Btw, I explained about consciusness and living organisms without a creator. I know it's more twisted that : awake to pure consciousness! Just try to understand it. There is not external agent, that's an absolute impossibility. From this basis, how could life appears? What is the reality? What consciousness is?

Edited yesterday at 02:04 PM by Breakingthewall

[Someone here]

@Breakingthewall

On 13/12/2025 at 8:15 PM, LastThursday said:

Non-living matter 

No such thing . Hear me out ..you think a rock is an object that exists out there and it doesn't see or hear or feel and you call that non living matter ..and on the other hand you think of yourself as a human body that is more evolved and complex than rocks and plants and animals and you have consciousness like a light bulb inside your skull..this is not what's going on .this is total made up thought story .actually the entire field of experience is just what it is. Stop conceptualising it into subjects and objects and dumb matter and alive sentient matter .

 

[Someone here]

5 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

What is the reality? What consciousness is?

The problem with such questions is what exactly are you expecting the answer to be? Reality is right here right now right this nanosecond. What is it you are asking ! Look at it .this is what it is. Sorry. To disappoint but it doesn't get any better. 

[Breakingthewall]

23 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Breakingthewall

No such thing . Hear me out ..you think a rock is an object that exists out there and it doesn't see or hear or feel and you call that non living matter ..and on the other hand you think of yourself as a human body that is more evolved and complex than rocks and plants and animals and you have consciousness like a light bulb inside your skull..this is not what's going on .this is total made up thought story .actually the entire field of experience is just what it is. Stop conceptualising it into subjects and objects and dumb matter and alive sentient matter .

 

Life has a quality that separates it from non-living things: separation. Living things are contained, limited by a membrane, thus creating a difference between exterior and interior. Living things are self-preserving; they have the intention to exist.

For example, an RNA molecule is highly complex and replicates itself, but it is not alive; ontologically, it is the same as a water molecule. A cell, however, is not the same; it is another phase of reality within the same universe.

25 minutes ago, Someone here said:

What is it you are asking ! Look at it .this is what it is. Sorry. To disappoint but it doesn't get any better. 

I can turn off my mind and be in silence, or turn it on and try to decipher reality. The thing is that, being human, there is always a mind and always a conceptual structure.

If that conceptual structure has limits, the silence will be limited. Silence itself does not guarantee openness. Many meditators are silent and in a closed state, believing they are consciousness, for example.

[Ishanga]

@Breakingthewall Don't waste Your time going back and forth explaining or justifying..

I've realized this place is like any other forum, mostly completely full of ideology junkies, they cannot read and understand what anyone shares because they are blinded by what they believe in, no matter what proof or logical argument you put infront of them, they luv the drama of the argument, the conflict and back and forth which is why they are on here all day everyday.. We here are supposed to be above this stuff, but that is not the reality mostly here..

What You wrote makes perfect sense as far as logic goes, leave it at that, don't give them the energy they suck out of You/Us...

[Someone here]

@Ishanga you do realize you're the one making this shit up dude. You're imagining the hustle .we are just chatting .what he is saying doesn't make any sense because you guys wanna philosophize and get entertainment not get to what's actually true . I roasted you multiple times about the absolute absurdity of compatible free will and you just run away and run your "Karma" stuff you heard your Sadhguru dude saying on repeat .

[Ishanga]

7 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Ishanga you do realize you're the one making this shit up dude. You're imagining the hustle .we are just chatting .what he is saying doesn't make any sense because you guys wanna philosophize and get entertainment not get to what's actually true . I roasted you multiple times about the absolute absurdity of compatible free will and you just run away and run your "Karma" stuff you heard your Sadhguru dude saying on repeat .

My last response to You;

from user Zenterus just today! : "Im sorry for taking your comments seriously. You're clearly mentally challenged in some way. Wish you all the best!"

and I believe Leo has called You lazy and a pervert...

Why would anyone give You credibility to anything You say, I certainly don't, no one else should! 

Bye Bye:)

Edited yesterday at 04:23 PM by Ishanga

[Someone here]

@Ishanga yeah it happens. People don't know when I'm being serious and when I'm being a troll. Right now I'm definitely being serious..so my arguments against free will are false because Leo called me a pervert?  And talking about" making sense "when using such childish logical fallacy ? Regarding Leo..he is not your stereotypical spiritual guru who's all stiff and anal about everything..he treats you as your bro . You take it too hard that's your own problem. 

[Someone here]

52 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Life has a quality that separates it from non-living things: separation. Living things are contained, limited by a membrane, thus creating a difference between exterior and interior. Living things are self-preserving; they have the intention to exist.

For example, an RNA molecule is highly complex and replicates itself, but it is not alive; ontologically, it is the same as a water molecule. A cell, however, is not the same; it is another phase of reality within the same universe.

Nice but none of that Is actually true on the absolute level.  So you have to first be clear if we are discussing the absolute nature of existence or some relative game of endless carving up of distinctions because I'm not interested in the latter .

54 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I can turn off my mind and be in silence, or turn it on and try to decipher reality. The thing is that, being human, there is always a mind and always a conceptual structure.

If that conceptual structure has limits, the silence will be limited. Silence itself does not guarantee openness. Many meditators are silent and in a closed state, believing they are consciousness, for example.

I don't remember saying anything about silent mind .I just said when you ask what is reality you are looking to get past this surface appearance of qualia to some rock bottom absolute nature of things ..and what I'm suggesting is that these two are identical . Appearance/qualia is Rock bottom.

[Human Mint]

I think you have it backwards. You're recycling a bunch of materialism, you're denying God. Big red flags.