I`m Confused WIth Free Will

[zurew]

22 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@zurew cheers, the way you phrased your answer cleared up some misunderstandings I had on this topic.

Im glad, but I could have approached the topic in a less complex way and I should have only added nuance when it is actually necessary.

I think Carl managed to cut through whats irrelevant and immediately get to whats relevant to most people (where relevance is roughly defined by how a given view will affect your actions and how it will affect you phenomenologically and not necessarily about whats true independent from those)

[SimpleGuy]

11 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Even if the world is outside of your control and you're connected to the world, you still experience yourself taking actions and being in control. There is no contradiction between these things.

You used to feel being responsible, then you learned a philosophy which makes you think you're not responsible, but it's a category error. You still feel being in control, you still feel being responsible.

Even if philsophy says every action has a causal chain or if science says we can predict your next action 3 seconds before your make it by reading your brain, your feeling of responsibility matters, it has consequences. It is important.

You really drove the point home on this one. Thank you

[Vercingetorix]

@Xonas Pitfall Well said.

[Someone here]

Yes free will is an illusion because you as an ego don't exist and life is gonna do whatever the fuck it wants with you. 

It's not complicated. 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

45 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Yes free will is an illusion because you as an ego don't exist and life is gonna do whatever the fuck it wants with you. 

It's not complicated. 

It can be a complex topic. Which is why I think OPs question was very pertinent.

There are few topics more loaded than if you propose there is no free will. People literally go mental at the proposition.

It has all sorts of implications people do not like. Meaning making can be the devil here. It is complex because its about the relationship between mind, matter and causation. And the reason it is so complex is because every layer of reality you peel back it opens a new contradiction: physics says everything is caused (shit follows laws, particles, your brain too), subjectivity says we choose (we feel like we decide otherwise). But logic cannot reconcile both - if your thoughts are caused, your sense of choosing is an illusion; if they aren't caused, they're random which also isn't 'you choosing' (as a rather shit example).

So to me there is a paradox, because determinism robs you of authorship. Indeterminism robs you of coherence. Compatibilism tries to save face by redefining 'freedom' as 'acting according to your motives'. But that sort of dodges the metaphysical question. At least this is to my understanding.

So it seems to me it is not just a philosophy problem - its like an ontological fracture. Are we mechanisms, experiencers, both? and every field seems to have a stake in it: neuroscience, physics, ethics, religion, phenomenology...

Edited 4 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Someone here]

@Natasha Tori Maru no its not complicated and everything you said is false.

Get a piece of paper and pen.. and write down the first movie that comes to mind.

Notice how the content of whatever movie it was..was completely unanticipated and random? 

Now extend the realization of this experience of happening  of thinking of a movie  to your entire existence.

Free will ain't there. It's all just pure happening.

To people who think they have free will: what the fuck is wrong with you ?

Of course nothing .

[Natasha Tori Maru]

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

@Natasha Tori Maru no its not complicated and everything you said is false.

Sure, but you didn't extrapolate on the nuance of the topic.

So you essentially communicated the OP's question and the dialogue that ensued was not warranting the complexity of answers.

But I think it does.

[Someone here]

@Natasha Tori Maru because there is no nuance to the topic .

all those replies are totally wrong. 

my reply is what is the answer is. 

omg so we don't have responsibility?  Yes we don't .

Omg so morality is nonsense? Yes it is nonsense. 

Yada yada .

Sorry thats the truth .nothing personal. 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

13 minutes ago, Someone here said:

all those replies are totally wrong. 

Sorry, but that is not correct. Just because your paragraph is simpler does not make mine incorrect.

[Someone here]

@Natasha Tori Maru OK.