Enlightenment is much rarer than most expect

[Natasha Tori Maru]

53 minutes ago, cetus said:

I think you're on to something there. A non-dualist mindset as a coping mechanism for the ego vs. the world. I could see that. Would be a great excuse for sitting on your ass all day too.

YUP.

Only half the story.

[VeganAwake]

I was in the military for 20 years so I do lay around quite a bit now. But not all the time....I have 3 boys, a girlfriend and an 8 month old german shepherd/husky mix pup lol.

This wasn't meant as a bs brag post or something for an inflated ego to munch. Just information sharing....that's it!

There are flowers and trees and plants and animals and bodies. These physical appearances are as real as real can get........& yes if you poke a hungry mother bear with a stick, she might rip your throat out and allow her cubs to eat the carcass.

Enlightenment is not about anything physical with apparent reality.

It's not about anything in particular at all.

It's also not about dying or surrendering or denying or avoiding.

But the whole recognition simultaneously includes all of these things.......enlightenment is all inclusive....it includes everything and rejects nothing.

Enlightenment pertains to the End of a seemingly personalized identification experience. And nobody realizes it. Nobody wakes up. Nobody continues on living the good enlightened life.

So it's not for anyone 😔.......I know, it's disappointing.

What continues living on, is an empty body until it physically dies.

This emptiness or nothingness is simultaneously the fullness or completness longed for by the self illusion.

But this emptiness phenomenon is only recognized when the self illusion is also recognized as emptiness. It's just no longer energized, when it's clearly seen to be unreal. 

But nothing actually dies because it was never real from the start......hence why its referred to as a self illusion.

Bottom line:

It's very very very rare......so be skeptical of anyone claiming   enlightenment......or don't......it doesn't ultimately matter either way......nothing does.

❤️ 

[Sugarcoat]

I think most who are familiar with the idea of enlightenment expect it to be rare. That’s why people spend decades with spiritual pursuit, they hold it like a difficult goal. It can be seen as a trap, but on the other hand, if you’re a human in the human psychological realm, and you have enlightenment as a goal, isn’t it the most wise thing to pursue it in different means, even if it absolutely might not be possible? I mean we can feel for ourselves how rigid this “self structure” is, so it’s reasonable to assume it requires something strong to break down, like a consistent practice. Especially if we end up experiencing changes, it can confirm to us it is a good path to take. If we are honest to ourselves, we recognize if we’re not enlightened, so while we remain in this relative realm it makes sense to chose to do things that we think can attack it directly. What is even rarer is people who get enlightened , or at least get enlightenment experiences, without any practice at all, so an even bigger trap might be just sitting around waiting for it to happen. Because the human psychology is gonna hold something as a distinct thing no matter what, it can’t comprehend absolute truth, so might as well try to get as close to it as we can through concepts and a framework to work from. Basically at the end of the day we’re in this game of life, so might as we’ll play it wisely before we’re able to be free from it. We can’t deny that our psychology seems to work a certain way; and anything that has a way of working should have a way of working to undo it. Like how the sun rises every morning, it’s a certain mechanism, even if absolutely there’s no distinct sun. There’s also the possibility of doing things loosely, so pursuing enlightenment while also simultaneously recognizing it’s not REALLY possible, even if it’s a intellectual realization at first, that might help in further undoing this human structure that separates things into objects. 

Edited 14 hours ago by Sugarcoat

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

Enlightenment pertains to the End of a seemingly personalized identification experience. And nobody realizes it. Nobody wakes up. Nobody continues on living the good enlightened life.

On 6/11/2025 at 9:31 AM, Ramasta9 said:

 

Then who's writing this? Nobody!. Well, that enlightenment is lets say, twisted, nihilistic, I don't understand the point 

Because look, "void" is just a concept that is happening in the human experience, means "absence of everything", so, if you, and as enlightened avatar, say: the reality is void. It implies that you have in your mind the "full", because without the full the void is impossible. If you have the "full" in your mind means that your mind is full, so where is the void, if it's full of the idea "full"? What a mess right?

Enlightenment has zero relationship with the realization that there is nobody, because nobody is just the opposite of somebody. Enlightenment is the realization of your absolute nature. 

Look, as you can perceive, and experience is happening. With a lot of sensations, feelings, movement, colors and that. You can call it "nothing" or "steak" but it is. Then, what is that? What is the essence, the core, the true nature, of this? The openess to that nature is enlightenment, not realize that there is nobody, because who realizes that is "somebody" .

Who gets enlightenment is precisely somebody: the human energetic structure. It's a reality that is happening, and that reality can realize what is it's deepest, ultimate nature, or not. Then that structure, the self, can be one with its ultimate nature.

But look, without this structure, there is not enlightenment, because the absolute without form is nothing, is not happening. But of course, nothing essentially is the same than something: limitless. But always there is something, just because something is change, and absence of change doesn't happen. It's quite simple. What is not so simple is breaking the energetic barrier that keep us locked and open ourselves to the totality. It's a maze. 

Edited 9 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Ishanga]

I wouldn't define Enlightenment too precisely, if You do then Your going to down and specific path and maybe forgoing other paths and Potentials/Possibilities..

So Enlightenment is just living at the highest Potential and Possibility for a Human Being..  But what is that, what is the highest Potential/Possibility?
 

Well its not working as a slave for an Company/Corporation/Employer and thinking this is It!

Its not having a family, that is just reproduction, a way to make sure the species goes on after You!

Its not feeling Human Emotions like Love, or Hate, Pride, Bitterness/Anger and all the ranges of Emotions we can feel!

Its choosing How to Live within Yourself, Its knowing that You are connected with everything else that is alive and living, its not being addicted to Mind/Intellect/Knowledge that is from outside of You, its not allowing others to rule You...

There is an Energy aspect, and Mind Aspect, Body aspect and Emotional aspect to it since these areas are a part of what makes us Human, but we are not those things essentially and You as an Enlightened person realize this and use those things and not let them Use You!

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

I think most who are familiar with the idea of enlightenment expect it to be rare. That’s why people spend decades with spiritual pursuit, they hold it like a difficult goal. It can be seen as a trap, but on the other hand, if you’re a human in the human psychological realm, and you have enlightenment as a goal, isn’t it the most wise thing to pursue it in different means, even if it absolutely might not be possible? I mean we can feel for ourselves how rigid this “self structure” is, so it’s reasonable to assume it requires something strong to break down, like a consistent practice. Especially if we end up experiencing changes, it can confirm to us it is a good path to take. If we are honest to ourselves, we recognize if we’re not enlightened, so while we remain in this relative realm it makes sense to chose to do things that we think can attack it directly. What is even rarer is people who get enlightened , or at least get enlightenment experiences, without any practice at all, so an even bigger trap might be just sitting around waiting for it to happen. Because the human psychology is gonna hold something as a distinct thing no matter what, it can’t comprehend absolute truth, so might as well try to get as close to it as we can through concepts and a framework to work from. Basically at the end of the day we’re in this game of life, so might as we’ll play it wisely before we’re able to be free from it. We can’t deny that our psychology seems to work a certain way; and anything that has a way of working should have a way of working to undo it. Like how the sun rises every morning, it’s a certain mechanism, even if absolutely there’s no distinct sun. There’s also the possibility of doing things loosely, so pursuing enlightenment while also simultaneously recognizing it’s not REALLY possible, even if it’s a intellectual realization at first, that might help in further undoing this human structure that separates things into objects. 

Solid way of thinking. Without self-deception, excuses, or preconceived notions. Sharp. That's the only possible path to true openness.

In my opinion, being "enlightened" is almost impossible for Westerners with desires and ambitions we don't want to relinquish. Look, I really don't want to give up material things, even knowing that the possibility of being enlightened like Buddha exists. It doesn't matter to me; my human existence demands its share. Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's. But what is possible is having moments of total openness.

Imagine entering deep meditation. Silence, total absence of desires, of mental noise. Okay, so what? Is that enlightenment? No, not at all. If you observe, you'll see it's a dull, empty state. It's closed. Closed how? Closed to what? Closed to the living energy that is creating this reality, that is, to what you are. 

Right now, one thousand quadrillion to the nth power subatomic particles created by vibrations of the fields of reality (whatever wtf that means) are vibrating in perfect coordination so that you can be. And each of those vibrations is in perfect coordination with the cosmos, with the space-time fabric of the universe, and probably with an infinite network of multiverses. This is not fantasy; it is reality, and this reality that we are can be perceived directly.

Meditation doesn't have to be empty silence, but living boundlessness. You can open your mind to it, be one with it; it is the absence of limits that lives, because it has no limits. It is absolute energy, total glory, infinite freedom. Where it makes no difference whether you are terminally ill, condemned to life imprisonment, or a millionaire. They are like garments that the total wears. The total is total. It has no limits; its power is absolute. Your mind is vaporized, and the total opens. This is possible. Just break the barrier that closes. 

[VeganAwake]

7 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

I think most who are familiar with the idea of enlightenment expect it to be rare. That’s why people spend decades with spiritual pursuit, they hold it like a difficult goal. It can be seen as a trap, but on the other hand, if you’re a human in the human psychological realm, and you have enlightenment as a goal, isn’t it the most wise thing to pursue it in different means, even if it absolutely might not be possible? I mean we can feel for ourselves how rigid this “self structure” is, so it’s reasonable to assume it requires something strong to break down, like a consistent practice. Especially if we end up experiencing changes, it can confirm to us it is a good path to take. If we are honest to ourselves, we recognize if we’re not enlightened, so while we remain in this relative realm it makes sense to chose to do things that we think can attack it directly. What is even rarer is people who get enlightened , or at least get enlightenment experiences, without any practice at all, so an even bigger trap might be just sitting around waiting for it to happen. Because the human psychology is gonna hold something as a distinct thing no matter what, it can’t comprehend absolute truth, so might as well try to get as close to it as we can through concepts and a framework to work from. Basically at the end of the day we’re in this game of life, so might as we’ll play it wisely before we’re able to be free from it. We can’t deny that our psychology seems to work a certain way; and anything that has a way of working should have a way of working to undo it. Like how the sun rises every morning, it’s a certain mechanism, even if absolutely there’s no distinct sun. There’s also the possibility of doing things loosely, so pursuing enlightenment while also simultaneously recognizing it’s not REALLY possible, even if it’s a intellectual realization at first, that might help in further undoing this human structure that separates things into objects. 

I get what you are saying.

The apparent issue is the misunderstanding that an illusion can be broken down in the first place. The self illusion doesn't want to be broken down, nor can it be. Rather, it wants to be there front and center to bask in the apparent benefits. It wants enlightenment for itself, and why wouldn't it right? It sounds like the ultimate spiritual achievement of a lifetime.

Its constantly reconfirming itself through these endless spiritual practices. The very practicing itself insinuates that there is indeed a real individual getting closer to achieving spiritual enlightenment. It also perpetuates the belief that the current reality is not already complete and perfect...........it's endlessly needy......it's never satisfied.

This misunderstood approach is like trying to use gasoline to put out a fire or shouting for silence.

Enlightenment ends this ridiculous hamster wheel fiasco. It stops the seeking dead in its tracks because its now recognized the seeker was never real from the start.

The constant seeking is the prison and never finding satisfactory results is the suffering!

But there's nothing right or wrong with seeking in general 

❤️ 

Edited 6 hours ago by VeganAwake

[Ishanga]

8 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

I get what you are saying.

The apparent issue is the misunderstanding that an illusion can be broken down in the first place. The self illusion doesn't want to be broken down, nor can it be. Rather, it wants to be there front and center to bask in the apparent benefits. It wants enlightenment for itself, and why wouldn't it right? It sounds like the ultimate spiritual achievement of a lifetime.

Its constantly reconfirming itself through these endless spiritual practices. The very practicing itself insinuates that there is indeed a real individual getting closer to achieving spiritual enlightenment. It also perpetuates the belief that the current reality is not already complete and perfect...........it's endlessly needy......it's never satisfied.

This misunderstood approach is like trying to use gasoline to put out a fire or shouting for silence.

Enlightenment ends this ridiculous hamster wheel fiasco. It stops the seeking dead in its tracks because its now recognized the seeker was never real from the start.

The constant seeking is the prison and never finding satisfactory results is the suffering!

But there's nothing right or wrong with seeking in general 

❤️ 

I would say Seeking is the beginning stage, one has to be a seeker to find the Truth or Enlightenment, but if You reach Enlightenment then there is NO SEEKER or ENLIGHTENMENT lol, so its a bit of a paradox here.

Eckhart Tolle says, maybe others too, that Suffering is needed until the day you realize it is not needed when on the spiritual path, so this is full of paradox and doesn't fit into logic or intellectual pursuing via reading what others say, following teachings and such things.. The methods passed down are only there not to make you "Enlightened", but to rid you of the obstacle preventing you from realizing You already are Enlightened!

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Ishanga said:

would say Seeking is the beginning stage, one has to be a seeker to find the Truth or Enlightenment, but if You reach Enlightenment then there is NO SEEKER or ENLIGHTENMENT lol, so its a bit of a paradox here.

The word "search" isn't quite right, since you're not looking for something; you're trying to remove the veils that prevent you from perceiving yourself. It's an action of rearranging, cleansing, removing, not searching. You need to synchronize your energetic structure so that it ceases to be clouded. If you search, the act of searching implies something external, and therefore, more cloudiness.

On the other hand, when people say that no one achieves enlightenment, it's misleading and false. Yes, someone does achieve it: the human being called X who tries to align their emotional structure to allow for openness. To say that this human isn't real is absurd; it's something people say to appear superior. They're just irritating narcissists who want to pretend they know something you don't, that they're in another category, level, status. 

To say that reality isn't real is a concept, a category of human language, a comparative structure. Enlightenment is stepping outside of that structure; from a state of openness, there isn't one or two, real or unreal, there is only openness to the unlimited. All that stuff about: "You're not real!"  Tadah!. belongs to the mental structure; a squid can't articulate it, and its essence is exactly the same as yours, the unlimited.

Edited 5 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Ishanga]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The word "search" isn't quite right, since you're not looking for something; you're trying to remove the veils that prevent you from perceiving yourself. It's an action of rearranging, cleansing, removing, not searching. You need to synchronize your energetic structure so that it ceases to be clouded. If you search, the act of searching implies something external, and therefore, more cloudiness.

On the other hand, when people say that no one achieves enlightenment, it's misleading and false. Yes, someone does achieve it: the human being called X who tries to align their emotional structure to allow for openness. To say that this human isn't real is absurd; it's something people say to appear superior. They're just irritating narcissists who want to pretend they know something you don't, that they're in another category, level, status. 

To say that reality isn't real is a concept, a category of human language, a comparative structure. Enlightenment is stepping outside of that structure; from a state of openness, there isn't one or two, real or unreal, there is only openness to the unlimited. All that stuff about: "You're not real!"  Tadah!. belongs to the mental structure; a squid can't articulate it, and its essence is exactly the same as yours, the unlimited.

I agree, with language it never really conveys the message correct.  With the word "Seek" or "Seeker", its just means a process of discovery of all the things you have listed as Potentials for a Human Being to Experience and it includes words that you used like rearranging, cleansing and removing..

And for sure, those that say nothing is happening, no one is here, that there is only 1 Being and everything is a figment of that 1 beings imagination, well that is just pure insanity.  We are here and now, if you don't deal with what is here and now, then You on the path of suffering thru life which in the end is a wasted life..  We can talk all we want about what is God, Absolute, Enlightenment but at the end of the day it is about the Quality of Your Life Experience, is it what you want, it is Joyful and Intense and Creative and Fulfilling? If not then we have to seek a solution, when and if we find the solution then things are transformed, we don't need to Seek anymore, to find answers from outside of ourselves, or anywhere, as we are the Answer already, its found in the latent Potential found within all of Us one just has to realize it!

[Breakingthewall]

37 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Quality of Your Life Experience, is it what you want, it is Joyful and Intense and Creative and Fulfilling?

All of this is not so simple. Spiritual gurus tell you that everything is your responsibility, and in a certain way it's correct, but the reality is that a human being is interconnected with the human collective and with life itself. If what surrounds you is alienation, madness, and violence, if your emotions have been repression, fear, hatred, confusion, narcissism, madness, disconnection, for years, your energetic structure will have been built in a certain way, and that structure is entirely real. You're not going to change it by realizing " you're not real" and engaging in those psychotic delusions. You have to undertake an inner journey of conquest as serious, challenging, and intelligent as any human endeavor.

Look for example that guy. He will tell you: I have not arms , not legs and I'm happy, why are you not happy?

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMnMxLLgSbw/?igsh=MW50anhxbDZnYmE4MA==

I could answer him: how were your parents? How was your environment? They loved and empowered you, or maybe they were methamphetamine addicted how prostitute you for 5 $? Because in the second case, the thing gets bit, let's say, twisted. Humans are tribal, don't try to make simple what is not simple at all. Lack of love, acceptation, ground, is harder that lack of arms for a human. Let's understand what means being human, we are built by other humans. We are not islands, we are a totally interconnected. Trying to avoid this fact is dead end road. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Ishanga]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

All of this is not so simple. Spiritual gurus tell you that everything is your responsibility, and in a certain way it's correct, but the reality is that a human being is interconnected with the human collective and with life itself. If what surrounds you is alienation, madness, and violence, if your emotions have been repression, fear, hatred, confusion, narcissism, madness, disconnection, for years, your energetic structure will have been built in a certain way, and that structure is entirely real. You're not going to change it by realizing " you're not real" and engaging in those psychotic delusions. You have to undertake an inner journey of conquest as serious, challenging, and intelligent as any human endeavor.

Look for example that guy. He will tell you: I have not arms , not legs and I'm happy, why are you not happy?

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMnMxLLgSbw/?igsh=MW50anhxbDZnYmE4MA==

I could answer him: how were your parents? How was your environment? They empower you, or maybe they were methamphetamine addicted how prostitute you for 5 $? Because I'm the second case, the thing gets bit, let's say, twisted. Humans are tribal, don't try to make simple what is not simple at all

Well regarding the Responsibility part, we can Respond to Everything/Everybody just like we Respond to our loved ones and things we like like our car, house, prized possessions, as well when one is living in very bad situations and circumstances it is very important to know how to Respond to it internally vs. reacting unconsciously and stressing out everyday and not being able to figure a way out of it.. Responding is akin to being Highly Conscious, its not a moral thing or blame thing, its about how much you are allowing outside situations and ppl affect how You Experience Life within Yourself..  Clarity comes when You are Highly Conscious, Clarity is what will help You get out the bad situation, Stressing out will not!

I can respond to a war in another country, but I am not responsible civically/morally for that war happening, I have nothing to do with it, so there is a difference in the context of using the word Responsibility, I'm using it too mean my Ability to Respond to things around Me.. 

We are connected to everything that is alive and living around Us, but if You let it influence You too much then Your a slave to situations/things outside of You, this is not wise.. Its been said to Never Suffer another's Suffering, if You do then there is more suffering happening, the conscious way to Respond to another's Suffering is to first take care of Your own Internal Experience, make it Joyful or Peaceful no matter what is happening, then via that stable base go out and do what You can to help those that are Suffering, when You do it like this, then You will go full speed ahead and not worry about "What about Me", you go 100% toward elevating the Suffering of others, because You are not worried/concerned about Your own Suffering cause there is none or its not possible for You since You have choice in the matter... 

[Breakingthewall]

@Ishanga

I don't mean wars and all that, but to the understanding that your energetic structure is given to you by previous generations. If you don't understand how the environment you live in has shaped you, the depth of your inherited structure, you'll never be able to open it up.

Spirituality tends to oversimplify. Tolle tells you that for a zebra there is no time, it's always now. The problem is, you're not a zebra.

You can't transcend the ego by realizing it's not real for the simple reason that it is real. It's an energetic structure forged over eons.

People usually get into spirituality because that structure is dissonant, unbearable, and spirituality tells them that this structure is illusory, that they should live in the present. But it never works. They're always one step away from achieving it. They almost have it. Almost. But at the end their emotional structure always catch them again and again, but as they would like that the idea of the illusion is real, they pretend that they are there, almost. Just narcissism, evasion.  Listen the op, his vibration. Do you feel depth or comparison? Real understanding or evasion? Love , or contempt? Is a good example 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[VeganAwake]

5 hours ago, Ishanga said:

but if You reach Enlightenment then there is NO SEEKER or ENLIGHTENMENT lol, so its a bit of a paradox here.

There isn't a real seeker now, just seeking energy contracted within the body.

There isn't a real You in which could reach Enlightenment.

Enlightenment IS already the case......it's just the insatiable self illusion believing its somewhere else in the future.

❤️ 

[VeganAwake]

Nothing from the past creates a real character in the present or future.

The past is gone and the future is only a thought!

Past and future thoughts about oneself does not = a real self in the present.

There is nothing actually there......take a close look.......it's emptiness appearing as a conditioned self.

The past conditioning simply does not equal a present self.....its an illusion......a really good one at that 🤣

LOOK 👀 👁 🧐

❤️ 💙 💜