Should i stop being vegan ?

[AION]

If Steve Jobs couldn't pull a vegan diet with all of his money, resources and expertise, it is madness to think one can do it. He thought he was hacking his biology and telling everybody how well he was doing and at the end he died a horrible death. It is important to listen to your body and eat intuitively. I trained myself to allow myself to eat whatever I want as long as it is not processed, and preferable wholefood. You want to actually be able to pronounce the ingredients of what you are eating. Those vegan buns are terrible for your body. Another thing is that you have to eat according to your genetics. I'm Mediterranean so I go well very on fresh vegatables, meats, olive oil, and certain fats, fruits and carbs.

Edited yesterday at 02:58 PM by AION

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, AION said:

If Steve Jobs couldn't pull a vegan diet with all of his money, resources and expertise, it is madness to think one can do it. He thought he was hacking his biology and telling everybody how well he was doing and at the end he died a horrible death.

So if you die, it means your diet is not good? Ok.

[zurew]

We do have an immortal vegan vampire though - Bryan Johnson.

[AION]

27 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

So if you die, it means your diet is not good? Ok.

Why are you even alive if you are going to die? He thought he could hack his biology with those weird fruitarian diets that he followed and paid the price for that. 

 

Edited 23 hours ago by AION

[AION]

23 minutes ago, zurew said:

We do have an immortal vegan vampire though - Bryan Johnson.

I took over some of his lifestyle besides the vegan aspect and more extremist aspects.  

[Carl-Richard]

33 minutes ago, AION said:

Why are you even alive if you are going to die? He thought he could hack his biology with those weird fruitarian diets that he followed and paid the price for that.

Like wut. He could have had severe genetic disposition, environmental stress or toxins.

Edited 23 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[AION]

12 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Like wut. He could have had severe genetic disposition, environmental stress or toxins.

Perhaps he died because of aliens? We might never know for sure. But he had pancreatic cancer and I think it is safe to assume he had health issues because of his extreme diets. I read his bio and he continually didn't listen to his body and this is what you get....

" Steve Jobs's extreme diet, particularly his fruitarian and vegan habits, may have contributed to his pancreatic cancer and may have hindered his recovery. His high intake of fruits, rich in fructose, has been linked to an increased risk of pancreatic cancer, and he also resisted mainstream medical treatments in favor of these diets after his diagnosis, a decision he reportedly later regretted. While the exact cause of his cancer is unknown, his dietary choices are considered a significant factor in its development and his subsequent struggles. " 

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, AION said:

Perhaps he died because of aliens? We might never know for sure. But he had pancreatic cancer and I think it is safe to assume he had health issues because of his extreme diets. I read his bio and he continually didn't listen to his body and this is what you get....

" Steve Jobs's extreme diet, particularly his fruitarian and vegan habits, may have contributed to his pancreatic cancer and may have hindered his recovery. His high intake of fruits, rich in fructose, has been linked to an increased risk of pancreatic cancer, and he also resisted mainstream medical treatments in favor of these diets after his diagnosis, a decision he reportedly later regretted. While the exact cause of his cancer is unknown, his dietary choices are considered a significant factor in its development and his subsequent struggles. " 

You have to disclose when using AI and preferably your sources in general. 

Using a guy who died from cancer and resisted modern medical treatment as evidence against a diet is a horrible line of argumentation.

My grandfather died of colorectal cancer at 53 and he ate meat and was fit, smart and wealthy. We know meat is associated with colorectal cancer, but this does not make the case that "nobody can pull off" an omnivorous diet.

[AION]

@Carl-Richard I’m sorry about your dad. I don’t know your father’s situation so I can’t say anything about that but Jobs didn’t listen to his doctors and their advice to stop his shady diets. I can’t provide you sources because I didn’t expect to be lectured when I was reading his 20+ hour biography. 

Edited 21 hours ago by AION

[Basman]

5 hours ago, Ramasta9 said:

@Basman Yes, humans are omnivores in the broad sense. But evolutionary speaking, our physiology is optimized for a largely frugivorous diet, with omnivory as an adaptive flexibility. 

Humans share far more anatomical and digestive similarities with frugivorous/omnivorous apes (like chimpanzees or bonobos) than with true omnivores like bears for example. Our teeth, gut and enzymes are optimized for fruits, seeds, and plant matter, therefore meat is more of an opportunistic addition, not a primary design, thus not truly optimal.

Survival isn't about being optimal, but good enough (in the broad sense). Just look at the flawed mess that is human birth. There's no pressure to be perfect. Just to survive. Survival =/= optimal or happiness. 

A bear belongs to an entirely different genome. Bear guts reflect bear evolution. Humans also cook, so we don't need an industrial garbage processor of a stomach to survive. 

Our closest living relatives aren't necessarily good comparisons either because they are species specialized for a particular habitat, as opposed to a generalist species, like us humans. Notice that there is only one generalist species of ape that exists today, us humans. Other human species have long been out competed/absorbed into our genome, such as the neanderthals. It would be more pertinent to compare to our sibling species than our distant cousins, which incidentally all ate meat. A likely conclusion is that food scarcity necessitates meat to survive and incentivizes migration among different populations due to our relative size and nutritional needs (especially relative to how resource intensive our brain is). It wouldn't be possible for us to survive historically without meat. 

Edited 21 hours ago by Basman

[Carl-Richard]

18 minutes ago, AION said:

@Carl-Richard I’m sorry about your dad.

Grandfather 🫠

[Schizophonia]

@Carl-Richard @AION No diet will save you from being an egocentric asshole like Steve Jobs was.

Or in general from the energetic games that triggers such or such disease. 

Edited 20 hours ago by Schizophonia

[Schizophonia]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

colorectal cancer

I'm not a holistic doctor, but the only guy I know with that kind of cancer is a French white supremacist.

He seems generally nice on a personal level like you can be easily be friend with him, but he loves living on shit; like he spends a lot of time ranting on social media, has a group of racialist people, gets into a lot of feuds with others, and said he works a lot; he promotes work.

Edited 20 hours ago by Schizophonia

[AION]

18 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

@Carl-Richard @AION No diet will save you from being an egocentric asshole like Steve Jobs was.

Or in general from the energetic games that triggers such or such disease. 

Weird thing is that he was into meditation and Zen Buddhism. He did a lot of spiritual work. Just imagine what he would be like without the spiritual work.

[Schizophonia]

1 hour ago, AION said:

Weird thing is that he was into meditation and Zen Buddhism. He did a lot of spiritual work. Just imagine what he would be like without the spiritual work.

There is a gulf between having knowledge and even practices, and truly grasping a paradigm and going where it suggests we should go.

[Ramasta9]

The least educated people on this planet use Steve jobs as an example. There are literally thousands of thriving fruitarians, millions of vegans, billions of vegetarians.... in fact more people in the world eat plants than meat, think (asia, china, india) and they live long healthy, lives. You guys must be teenagers still developing i guess... 

Edited 12 hours ago by Ramasta9

[Carl-Richard]

59 minutes ago, Ramasta9 said:

You guys must be teenagers still developing i guess... 

We're talking about one guy here just to be clear 😂

[Carl-Richard]

8 hours ago, AION said:

Weird thing is that he was into meditation and Zen Buddhism. He did a lot of spiritual work. Just imagine what he would be like without the spiritual work.

Look at how many are into spirituality here and how little that helps 😂

[Emerald]

According to meta-analyses, plant-based diets are associated with lower risk of all-cause mortality... in particular reduced risks heart disease, stroke, and cancer. And those are the number one killers.

My recommendation is to track your diet on a tracking app to be get some peace of mind that you're getting everything you need and to fill in any potential nutritional gaps that aren't currently accounted for.

The reality is that you can get all nutrients on a Vegan diet that you get in an omnivorous diet... minus b-12, which is easily supplemented.

But I know that, when I first went Vegan, the change was playing at my mind and I was worrying about it because I didn't yet have a ton of knowledge about how nutritionally adequate a Vegan diet is. I just switched for ethical reasons.

But 9.5 years later, and I've had no issues... and would likely be in worse situation health-wise if I continued to consume meat and dairy.

And I know a lot more about how to meet my nutritional needs.

[Emerald]

16 hours ago, Basman said:

The whole naturalism arguments from vegans is such cope. Humans are are obviously omnivores. 

You can make arguments for what may be an optimal diet under modern conditions and even make some ethical arguments to boot, but it is pure greed to claim humans are not omnivores to support some kind of narrative.

Appeals to nature really don't make a strong argument for switching to a plant-based diet... that is true.

And ultimately, it doesn't matter what was "natural" in the past... it matters what is optimal for health. (if you're looking from a health perspective)

But you know what (from a health perspective) does make a strong argument for switching to a plant-based diet?

Thousands of studies organized into broad-scale meta-analyses on the human diet consistently showing lower risk of all-cause mortality in those who eat plant-based diets... and a higher risk of cancer, obesity, heart disease, stroke, and other health conditions in meat-eaters.

And then in knowing that, we can question whether or not the way our teeth are shaped and the way our digestive tract is has anything to do with why Vegan diets are associated with better health outcomes.

And then, it ceases to be an appeal to nature... but instead a hypothesis about why plant-based diets have better health outcomes.