She can open up, I cant

[Jannes]

I am seeing a girl at my social spot about once a week atm. I already got her number and she seems super interested. 

The problem is that I have a hard time opening up to people emotionally while she has no problem with it whatsoever which overwhelms me. We have very different speeds. I light up on the short distance I can follow her until it gets to much for me and I create distance. 

Important to note though is that she seems to already know me through friends which would likely reveal both very high status but also social anxiety/ trauma. 

Has anyone experienced the same dynamic and has any insights to share of how to go about it?

Edited October 3 by Jannes

[Recursoinominado]

You don't need to open up. The reason she does it with ease and you don't is that she is a woman and you aren't. Women socialize by sharing stuff, sharing feelings; men socialize by doing stuff, teasing each other, and making jokes. Don't act like her girlfriends if you don't want her to see you as one of them. More often than not, when men open up to women they are sexually attracted to, it backfires; you look weak. 

IF you reeeaaally want to do it, do it in a way that doesn't make you look weak.

"Hey, I went through a lot in my childhood, but I managed to flip the script, and now I overcome those challenges."

If you need someone to talk to and drop your guard completely, do it to a therapist or a close friend. 

Or, just take some mdma, you will tell her everything.

[Jannes]

3 minutes ago, Recursoinominado said:

You don't need to open up. The reason she does it with ease and you don't is that she is a woman and you aren't. Women socialize by sharing stuff, sharing feelings; men socialize by doing stuff, teasing each other, and making jokes. 

I talk to many women, she opens up way faster and more intensely then other women. It just nukes my fragile system. But I also enjoy the short ride until I am fried. 

3 minutes ago, Recursoinominado said:

Don't act like her girlfriends if you don't want her to see you as one of them. More often than not, when men open up to women they are sexually attracted to, it backfires; you look weak. 

IF you reeeaaally want to do it, do it in a way that doesn't make you look weak.

The pussy way worked well for me so far. Women are generally faster in reading you, so if you pretend you often just seem immature and you dont really grow at the core. 

3 minutes ago, Recursoinominado said:

"Hey, I went through a lot in my childhood, but I managed to flip the script, and now I overcome those challenges."

If you need someone to talk to and drop your guard completely, do it to a therapist or a close friend. 

Or, just take some mdma, you will tell her everything.

And if you didnt overcome those challenges? Of course I am at the same page that you should show that you are not giving in and are ready to tackle those challenges.

I talked to a female friend about this situation in particular and it helps a lot but doenst solve the problem with this dynamic. I also agree that you should be cautious with how you talk about problems you have, not because being emotional backfires, but because telling her that you are a trainwreck in some way can be a little much. 

With opening up I mean being emotionally open around her, getting in a giving and taking dynamic. Telling her my problems is just a part of it I am also very catious with of course. 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

By open up, do you mean talking about history, experience and feelings/emotions? 

Or just expressing emotions and letting them come through with authenticity? 

Curious to know, of she is opening up in a healthy manner with sense, as someone with secure attachment would. Or if she may possibly have some anxious attachment, which is characterised by opening up way too fast to see intimacy as soon as possible. Most people have some attachment issue - only 25% of the population (or hereabouts) have healthy secure attachment. 

I touch on this, because you mention her emoting causes you to 'distance' yourself (if I understand you correctly). I wonder on this - if you retreat - your lymbic system senses some threat or intrusion by her. This leads me to think you possibly may have had someone close to you with bad boundaries and intruded on you in the past. There is usually a pattern... 

If you have avoidant tendencies you will attract someone anxious. It is the nature of the animal. 

Not sure if any of this hit the mark, just some ideas based on your post (with a lot of assumptions!)  🙏

[Jannes]

11 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

By open up, do you mean talking about history, experience and feelings/emotions? 

Or just expressing emotions and letting them come through with authenticity? 

The later. 

11 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Curious to know, of she is opening up in a healthy manner with sense, as someone with secure attachment would. Or if she may possibly have some anxious attachment, which is characterised by opening up way too fast to see intimacy as soon as possible. Most people have some attachment issue - only 25% of the population (or hereabouts) have healthy secure attachment. 

I touch on this, because you mention her emoting causes you to 'distance' yourself (if I understand you correctly). I wonder on this - if you retreat - your lymbic system senses some threat or intrusion by her. This leads me to think you possibly may have had someone close to you with bad boundaries and intruded on you in the past. There is usually a pattern... 

If you have avoidant tendencies you will attract someone anxious. It is the nature of the animal. 

Not sure if any of this hit the mark, just some ideas based on your post (with a lot of assumptions!)  🙏

I thought about it as well as it didnt seem normal but I didnt want to condemn anything that isnt there. As I said she also seems to know me through friends and seems socially very competent and because I was a bit passive maybe she just wanted to do a bombastic start. I havent come to any conclusions yet. 

Yes I have a bit or maybe even strong of an avoidant attatchment style. And intrusion of her puts it well, she put so much in it brought me to new heights but I felt reliant on her. I once needed some time off to produce my own love again which felt way better because it brought me back into power. 

Because of adhd its hard for me to set boundaries because conflict overwhelms me which is why I got exploited a lot in my life. Not sure if its anyone in particular. 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Jannes I understand. 

I used to be avoidant myself - I am not sure if you feel like this - but I used to feel like I was losing my sense of self around my partner. I felt the need to withdraw to gain that sense back. I had bad boundaries around this, so I never made it clear why I felt the need to withdraw to my partner as I was afraid of rejection. Ergo this caused a lot of confusion! And the familiar push/pull.

You can heal attachment wounds with someone who is securely attached. If they can hold space and remain steady while you confront the hard conversations, it will act to help you understand there is no need to withdraw. Securely attached people will make you feel valid and okay for speaking about your needs and boundaries. Unhealthy or immature individuals will not be able to tolerate such conversations without feeling threatened - even if subconsciously. 

So having this conversation with her may act to reveal if she has some attachment issues (by observing her reaction) or of she is just genuienly an earnest and flamboyant woman 🙂 

It is unfortunate that healthy, secure attachment appears 'boring' to those with attachment issues. The view of love is slightly off, thinking the thrill and adrenaline of it, and the sacrifice of the self and needs, is love. So one naturally dismisses a healthy individual as boring because one cannot recognise healthy love. 

I think having an open conversation about your own behaviour in reaction to her may be the only way to go. Which carries inherent risk. But any other path will lead to this issue not being addressed and becoming a pattern of interaction that leads to resentment 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

1 hour ago, Jannes said:

 And intrusion of her puts it well, she put so much in it brought me to new heights but I felt reliant on her. I once needed some time off to produce my own love again which felt way better because it brought me back into power. 

This caught me - it is important to realise she is bringing this OUT in you. You have that within you also, she is just opening it up within you. You already have that capacity. This isn't always clear with avoidant attachment.

In any case, I had a think on this while walking the dog. I think if you can maintain stoicism for a bit, it might be sensible to just observe as you have been. Draw no conclusions. But keenly watch, with discernment, how you feel yourself reacting to her. No doubt, that feeling is arising through a hidden belief or conclusion you have subconsciously come to, that begs to be looked at. Feelings point to thoughts and beliefs in a way. 

Sending good thoughts your way 🌱

[Jannes]

15 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Jannes I understand. 

I used to be avoidant myself - I am not sure if you feel like this - but I used to feel like I was losing my sense of self around my partner. I felt the need to withdraw to gain that sense back. I had bad boundaries around this, so I never made it clear why I felt the need to withdraw to my partner as I was afraid of rejection. Ergo this caused a lot of confusion! And the familiar push/pull.

I was never in a relationship before but I had a pretty deep f+ a year ago and this dynamic happened as well. But it was particularily psychotic.

15 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

You can heal attachment wounds with someone who is securely attached. If they can hold space and remain steady while you confront the hard conversations, it will act to help you understand there is no need to withdraw. Securely attached people will make you feel valid and okay for speaking about your needs and boundaries. Unhealthy or immature individuals will not be able to tolerate such conversations without feeling threatened - even if subconsciously. 

So having this conversation with her may act to reveal if she has some attachment issues (by observing her reaction) or of she is just genuienly an earnest and flamboyant woman 🙂 

It is unfortunate that healthy, secure attachment appears 'boring' to those with attachment issues. The view of love is slightly off, thinking the thrill and adrenaline of it, and the sacrifice of the self and needs, is love. So one naturally dismisses a healthy individual as boring because one cannot recognise healthy love. 

Thats interesting. I am gonna try to observe my mind on that one, if I dismiss seemingly healthy individuals for example and gravitate for not so healthy ones. 

15 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I think having an open conversation about your own behaviour in reaction to her may be the only way to go. Which carries inherent risk. But any other path will lead to this issue not being addressed and becoming a pattern of interaction that leads to resentment 

Super true, but gosh thats one hell of a difficult conversation to have. My mind already went through so many possible ways to approach this. But that seems like something you just dont have power over, whatever happens happens. 

[Jannes]

15 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

This caught me - it is important to realise she is bringing this OUT in you. You have that within you also, she is just opening it up within you. You already have that capacity. This isn't always clear with avoidant attachment.

In any case, I had a think on this while walking the dog. I think if you can maintain stoicism for a bit, it might be sensible to just observe as you have been. Draw no conclusions. But keenly watch, with discernment, how you feel yourself reacting to her. No doubt, that feeling is arising through a hidden belief or conclusion you have subconsciously come to, that begs to be looked at. Feelings point to thoughts and beliefs in a way. 

Sending good thoughts your way 🌱

Kind of right? We are not isolated things, someone walking implies a ground to walk on. One could realise he could walk without a ground in vacuum, but if he didnt find ground to walk on, except that one ground he was given to him then whats the point? But when even one ground for his feet exists whatsoever it means there is generally a possibility to manifest this dynamic in a similiar way again.

I hope that made some sense, I am struggling to put my thoughts into words. 

15 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

In any case, I had a think on this while walking the dog. I think if you can maintain stoicism for a bit, it might be sensible to just observe as you have been. Draw no conclusions. But keenly watch, with discernment, how you feel yourself reacting to her. No doubt, that feeling is arising through a hidden belief or conclusion you have subconsciously come to, that begs to be looked at. Feelings point to thoughts and beliefs in a way. 

Sending good thoughts your way 🌱

She isnt a training object for me to get to insights though, she will move on or get resentful if I treat her that way and then I will draw the wrong conclusions from that as well. But I get it, to a certain extend this is the way to go and likely even wanted. Its a balancing act.

Thanks you for your input so far 🫶

.

[ivankiss]

Opening up too fast too much is equally as much of a trauma response as opening up too slow too little.

She needs to learn to think more about the consequences of her words and you need to learn how to connect to your feelings and not overthink every single stupid little thing.

[ivankiss]

Can you see how you actually met to balance each other out?

[Jannes]

1 hour ago, ivankiss said:

Can you see how you actually met to balance each other out?

No, but thats a good point. 

[Jannes]

2 hours ago, ivankiss said:

Opening up too fast too much is equally as much of a trauma response as opening up too slow too little.

She needs to learn to think more about the consequences of her words and you need to learn how to connect to your feelings and not overthink every single stupid little thing.

I am an overthinker, but what am I overthinking here?

[ivankiss]

@Jannes Read your posts again to understand.

But also, it doesn’t really matter what, point is that you are... overthinking.

Breathe more.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

5 hours ago, Jannes said:

She isnt a training object for me to get to insights though, she will move on or get resentful if I treat her that way and then I will draw the wrong conclusions from that as well.

My apologies - I did not intent for it to come across as this! I good friend recently pointed out I drive so hard towards solutions it can come across as if I have removed the human element from the equation - if I make sense? 

I meant to express that, if I were in your position, I would try to be aware and conscious of my own reactions in an attempt to understand their roots. But not as the primary driver for connection with your lady. Just something to consider if anything does come up.

It is in my nature to datamine (if you will) for insights whenever I have an experience in reality. I tend to project this onto others also - don't mind me!

Edited October 4 by Natasha Tori Maru

[Jannes]

2 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

My apologies - I did not intent for it to come across as this! I good friend recently pointed out I drive so hard towards solutions it can come across as if I have removed the human element from the equation - if I make sense? 

I meant to express that, if I were in your position, I would try to be aware and conscious of my own reactions in an attempt to understand their roots. But not as the primary driver for connection with your lady. Just something to consider if anything does come up.

It is in my nature to datamine (if you will) for insights whenever I have an experience in reality. I tend to project this onto others also - don't mind me!

Its sensable to do exactly that. 

Its just that I kind of need a plan to move forward and when I stall on purpose I kind of use her as a training object. But this is still maybe the best thing to do, as how else would I go about it really. I should just be mindful to not stretch it and give her direction as soon as I found some clearness. Or maybe go directly for a talk? Its hard to tell..

Btw I also experience some things much more intensely so thats why I put it in such strong words.

[Jannes]

9 hours ago, ivankiss said:

@Jannes Read your posts again to understand.

But also, it doesn’t really matter what, point is that you are... overthinking.

Breathe more.

I read it again and cant see it. 

But its telling I guess that from these few lines you draw that conclusion. 

Indeed its hard for me to catch a breath. 

Just my brain chemistry, I can only do so much. 

[ivankiss]

3 hours ago, Jannes said:

I read it again and cant see it. 

But its telling I guess that from these few lines you draw that conclusion. 

Indeed its hard for me to catch a breath. 

Just my brain chemistry, I can only do so much. 

Thank you for your honesty. And best of luck to both of you.

You got this.

[Jannes]

10 hours ago, ivankiss said:

Thank you for your honesty. And best of luck to both of you.

You got this.

Thanks

[Jannes]

Made a walk today which got me to process some of it. 

I was kind of surpressing what already happened between us. One time when she poured so much into it, it stirred up so much in me that even one painful childhood experience came up to the surface. Thats not really the kind of playing field you want to hookup or want to meet someone in, it way too much. 

And I was so confused about her. Sometimes she is there, sometimes not and when she is there its 100%, otherwise 0%. 

Edited October 5 by Jannes