What is Happiness?

[Sugarcoat]

On 2025-09-22 at 2:48 PM, UnbornTao said:

It requires consciousness.

The paradox is that everything in our experience and perception - which is where our life happens and the place we'll look within - is relative. So, we discover that we can't find ourselves there, and yet, direct realization is possible at the same time. How come? Go figure.

Yea we can recognize how this isn’t “it”. How we are in something limited.

On 2025-09-22 at 2:48 PM, UnbornTao said:

And openness isn't limited to the mind either; it could be applied to feeling, the body, and awareness. It's based on not-knowing.

It's a bit tricky. Regardless, it's useful to remember the mind isn't limited to logic or intellect, as useful as they can be.

Your last sentence is a good way of putting it.

 

Yea openness could mean how open you are to sensations in the body vs being dissociated from it. How your attention is dispersed vs focused. Etc. It’s recognizing you don’t really know what you’re looking at…

On 2025-09-22 at 2:48 PM, UnbornTao said:

Don't you dare invalidate my suffering 

It's your condition now so there's no need to reach it or do anything extra, only to recognize it. That's apparently easier said than realized, though. Still, whenever you've been happy, you've accessed that. What stands in the way of this possibility is our selves. Remember Ramana: he lived in a cave while insects were eating his body, and yet he was blissful. He was free from life and death. It's independent of circumstances.

What you're referring to is survival or conventional happiness, which is fine too. But notice: being happy doesn't mean being complacent, dumb, or lazy, nor does it mean we can't create what we want in life. You can be happy and still pursue a certain degree of comfort, for example. It's not like happiness has to keep you stuck with your circumstances. 'Freedom' is a good term to use for that.

One thing I can say is that I’m a little perplexed about the difference between happiness and neutrality. To me it seems the default is a kind of neutrality, but you seem to suggest it’s happiness. To me happiness sounds more intense, like something extra added to neutrality . The absence of suffering to me is neutrality not happiness. And it can be hard to produce happiness, it’s not entirely effortless I feel

[ExploringReality]

Happiness is not something found in the world of experience. You can have fleeting moments of satisfaction and pleasure but they will pass and change. Your happiness is contingent on the circumstances that serve you positively.

You cannot truly be happy unless you understand deeply what you are and what the world is, then happiness is not about some experience that you have, happiness is the internal realization that nothing can make you happy, paradoxically. Nothing is the greatest joy, and nothing can give you happiness. Something cannot give you lasting happiness because that something changes eventually, Nothing as your true nature gives you real happiness

It's nuanced.

Generally speaking most people need the right things for themselves uniquely to be happy, but also at the highest levels of consciousness, Happiness is outside the realm of egoic survival 

Edited Wednesday at 06:19 AM by ExploringReality

[UnbornTao]

8 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Yea we can recognize how this isn’t “it”. How we are in something limited.

Yea openness could mean how open you are to sensations in the body vs being dissociated from it. How your attention is dispersed vs focused. Etc. It’s recognizing you don’t really know what you’re looking at…

Yes.

Quote

One thing I can say is that I’m a little perplexed about the difference between happiness and neutrality. To me it seems the default is a kind of neutrality, but you seem to suggest it’s happiness. To me happiness sounds more intense, like something extra added to neutrality . The absence of suffering to me is neutrality not happiness. And it can be hard to produce happiness, it’s not entirely effortless I feel

It depends. Are you holding happiness as an emotion? Do you see neutrality as a kind of equanimity?

Are we ever in a truly neutral state? I'm not sure. Everything we encounter is automatically regarded as either positive or negative. What's neutral tends to recede from our awareness; it goes unnoticed.

Yeah, that's fine. Stopping something doesn't mean that "the opposite" will be experienced, just that the former has ceased.

To suffer requires that you create both a self and a situation in which it can suffer.

Suffering arises after a long chain of associations, attachments, agendas, and assumptions have been activated, interconnected, and called "real," whereas happiness is your primordial condition. Consider that the beingness of something is inherently free from suffering. Becoming happy does not require you to create happiness. Rather it is a matter of letting go of everything that obsures the happiness that is inherently there.

I was going to include more flowery language, but I think that illustrates the point well enough.

Edited Wednesday at 02:43 PM by UnbornTao

[Sugarcoat]

15 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

It depends. Are you holding happiness as an emotion? Do you see neutrality as a kind of equanimity?

 

Hmm. I’d say yes but then on the other hand an emotion to me sounds like something that comes lika a “wave” . But i think happiness could be more static. But then an emotion could also be quite static.  But yea i think id consider it an emotion. 

15 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Are we ever in a truly neutral state? I'm not sure. Everything we encounter is automatically regarded as either positive or negative. What's neutral tends to recede from our awareness; it goes unnoticed.

 

I agree I am rarely in a perfectly neutral state. But I can feel I can be close to neutrality. But there’s almost always a at least subtle liking/disliking present.

15 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

 

Yeah, that's fine. Stopping something doesn't mean that "the opposite" will be experienced, just that the former has ceased.

To suffer requires that you create both a self and a situation in which it can suffer.

Suffering arises after a long chain of associations, attachments, agendas, and assumptions have been activated, interconnected, and called "real," 

I’m with you there

15 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

 whereas happiness is your primordial condition. Consider that the beingness of something is inherently free from suffering. Becoming happy does not require you to create happiness. Rather it is a matter of letting go of everything that obsures the happiness that is inherently there.

I was going to include more flowery language, but I think that illustrates the point well enough.

For me personally dissolving neurotic tendencies has led me closer to a kind of equanimity rather than happiness. For now I can’t confirm it in my experience, but maybe there’s an even additional like transcendence of self that would open up the possibility for that primordial happiness. But I have a little bit of a materialist view that our happiness is partly limited to our wiring, but maybe if you become enlightened it’s outside the realm of human psychology so it works differently.

Edited Thursday at 05:56 AM by Sugarcoat

[Schizophonia]

9 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Hmm. I’d say yes but then on the other hand an emotion to me sounds like something that comes lika a “wave” . But i think happiness could be more static. But then an emotion could also be quite static.  But yea i think id consider it an emotion. 

I agree I am rarely in a perfectly neutral state. But I can feel I can be close to neutrality. But there’s almost always a at least subtle liking/disliking present.

I’m with you there

For me personally dissolving neurotic tendencies has led me closer to a kind of equanimity rather than happiness. For now I can’t confirm it in my experience, but maybe there’s an even additional like transcendence of self that would open up the possibility for that primordial happiness. But I have a little bit of a materialist view that our happiness is partly limited to our wiring, but maybe if you become enlightened it’s outside the realm of human psychology so it works differently.

In my case, it works like this: you dissolve the layers of "bad self," "neurotic self" if you will, and in fact, you risk losing motivation because you no longer know who you are.
Because the body is manually led to this "primordial happiness," but the layers that block access are too repressed in the unconscious to be visible, except in dreams or uncomfortable situations.
What works for me is visualization; it's difficult to say, but by playing with your imagination and your senses, you can succeed in visiting frequencies of happiness, intensity/vitality in general.
But it's a challenge to maintain these frequencies and abandon this kind of dysthymia in everyday life.

Edited Thursday at 03:08 PM by Schizophonia

[Sugarcoat]

10 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

In my case, it works like this: you dissolve the layers of "bad self," "neurotic self" if you will, and in fact, you risk losing motivation because you no longer know who you are.

Relatable

10 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Because the body is manually led to this "primordial happiness," but the layers that block access are too repressed in the unconscious to be visible, except in dreams or uncomfortable situations.
What works for me is visualization; it's difficult to say, but by playing with your imagination and your senses, you can succeed in visiting frequencies of happiness, intensity/vitality in general.
But it's a challenge to maintain these frequencies and abandon this kind of dysthymia in everyday life.

Relatable in my past. I used to have a very visual mind with a lot of daydreaming that could give me a lot of pleasure. But I am not able to gain that level of satisfaction from my mind anymore. What I can do is improve my mindset while I have a mind: and it has helped me but hasn’t gained me access to more than equanimity mostly 

Edited Thursday at 03:17 PM by Sugarcoat

[UnbornTao]

On 25/9/2025 at 6:51 AM, Sugarcoat said:

Hmm. I’d say yes but then on the other hand an emotion to me sounds like something that comes lika a “wave” . But i think happiness could be more static. But then an emotion could also be quite static.  But yea i think id consider it an emotion. 

Have you ever been happy just because, maybe while meditating?

No big stimulus is present, yet you are perfectly okay and content.

There's nothing particularly exciting about the circumstances - you're just sitting, maybe focused on your breathing - and yet this joy arises unbidden.

Usually, we'd ask where it comes from: What caused it?

We tend to assume an agreeable experience must occur first before happiness can arise or be justified.

Quote

I agree I am rarely in a perfectly neutral state. But I can feel I can be close to neutrality. But there’s almost always a at least subtle liking/disliking present.

Sure.

I'd be wary of pursuing an ideal, though. If, in your mind, a neutral state is devoid of emotion and feeling, then it may not be worth aiming for. I don't think such a thing could realistically occur.

Even equanimity is still a kind of feeling-disposition.

Quote

I’m with you there

For me personally dissolving neurotic tendencies has led me closer to a kind of equanimity rather than happiness. For now I can’t confirm it in my experience, but maybe there’s an even additional like transcendence of self that would open up the possibility for that primordial happiness. But I have a little bit of a materialist view that our happiness is partly limited to our wiring, but maybe if you become enlightened it’s outside the realm of human psychology so it works differently.

Sounds good.

Get enlightened and then you tell me. 

Edited 19 hours ago by UnbornTao

[Sugarcoat]

22 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Have you ever been happy just because, maybe while meditating?

No big stimulus is present, yet you are perfectly okay and content.

There's nothing particularly exciting about the circumstances - you're just sitting, maybe focused on your breathing - and yet this joy arises unbidden.

Usually, we'd ask where it comes from: What caused it?

We tend to assume an agreeable experience must occur first before happiness can arise or be justified.

Even happiness associated with circumstances arises from within so yea it’s possible to have it arise when nothing special is happening. 
 

 

22 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

I'd be wary of pursuing an ideal, though. If, in your mind, a neutral state is devoid of emotion and feeling, then it may not be worth aiming for. I don't think such a thing could realistically occur.

Even equanimity is still a kind of feeling-disposition.

 

I’m with you. We pursue the good not the neutral. Although being closer to neutral is a stepping stone to happiness and better than suffering

22 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

 

Sounds good. But again, try to go the direct route instead of piling up prerequisites and excuses. Being happy now is possible regardless of all that.

Get enlightened and then you tell me.

I do pursue happiness …I was just sharing my view

Yea exactly id have to get enlightened to answer some things🫡🫡

[UnbornTao]

7 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Even happiness associated with circumstances arises from within so yea it’s possible to have it arise when nothing special is happening. 

You're probably going in your mind "yeah sure, shut up already."

Quote

I’m with you. We pursue the good not the neutral. Although being closer to neutral is a stepping stone to happiness and better than suffering

I do pursue happiness …I was just sharing my view

Yea exactly id have to get enlightened to answer some things🫡🫡

Thanks, I largely agree with you on that. Still, pursuing it sets us up for failure. It puts happiness out of reach and separates us from it. Rather, don't want it.

By direct, it is meant: be (happy.) But again, this shift has to be real and not just pretended, so that is that. What you said somewhere about removing layers of the self helps in that. Less self, less suffering.

It's like reminding ourselves not to wait for the lollipop (getting what we want) in order to be content now.

Edited 17 hours ago by UnbornTao

[Sugarcoat]

42 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

You're probably going in your mind "yeah sure, shut up already."

Hahahah nah😂😎But it’s good you have social sensibility

42 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

 

Thanks, I largely agree with you on that. Still, pursuing it sets us up for failure. It puts happiness out of reach and separates us from it. Rather, don't want it.

By direct, it is meant: be (happy.) But again, this shift has to be real and not just pretended, so that is that. What you said somewhere about removing layers of the self helps in that. Less self, less suffering.

It's like reminding ourselves not to wait for the lollipop (getting what we want) in order to be content now. Breathe.

I mean pursuing something could mean identifying if you have things blocking it, so if something blocks your “being-ness” then it could block that happiness that is tied to being-ness as you say. But that assumes you have “blocks” to begin with, if not then yea pursuit can be a hindrance because ~wanting~ in itself can be a form of suffering. 

Edited 18 hours ago by Sugarcoat

[UnbornTao]

On 9/24/2025 at 7:14 AM, ExploringReality said:

Happiness is not something found in the world of experience. You can have fleeting moments of satisfaction and pleasure but they will pass and change. Your happiness is contingent on the circumstances that serve you positively.

You cannot truly be happy unless you understand deeply what you are and what the world is, then happiness is not about some experience that you have, happiness is the internal realization that nothing can make you happy, paradoxically. Nothing is the greatest joy, and nothing can give you happiness. Something cannot give you lasting happiness because that something changes eventually, Nothing as your true nature gives you real happiness

It's nuanced.

Generally speaking most people need the right things for themselves uniquely to be happy, but also at the highest levels of consciousness, Happiness is outside the realm of egoic survival 

Nice, thank you.

You say it isn't found in the world of experience but then claim that happiness is contingent on positive circumstances. I suspect you're talking about two different kinds of happiness there.

Edited 15 hours ago by UnbornTao

[Sugarcoat]

On 2025-09-11 at 3:46 PM, SQAAD said:

Because of massive, super extreme type of suffering in my life

I’m sorry dude but the way you formulate yourself here makes it sound you’ve been in a medieval torture chamber or something 😭 Makes one wonder what can cause such suffering 

[UnbornTao]

3 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Hahahah nah😂😎But it’s good you have social sensibility

I mean pursuing something could mean identifying if you have things blocking it, so if something blocks your “being-ness” then it could block that happiness that is tied to being-ness as you say. But that assumes you have “blocks” to begin with, if not then yea pursuit can be a hindrance because ~wanting~ in itself can be a form of suffering. 

Yeah, pretty much.

We pursue what is assessed as lacking in the present. In the case of happiness, that might be a fool's errand.

Edited 15 hours ago by UnbornTao

[Sugarcoat]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

Yeah, pretty much.

We pursue what is assessed as lacking in the present. In the case of happiness, that might be a fool's errand.

I mean it works sometimes for the average person when it comes to conventional happiness. For example  how someone feels happier during vacation so they chose to take that vacation. But if you wanna access an unconditional happiness which is what it seems you talk about then yes the very wanting can be hindrance

[UnbornTao]

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

I mean it works sometimes for the average person when it comes to conventional happiness. For example  how someone feels happier during vacation so they chose to take that vacation. But if you wanna access an unconditional happiness which is what it seems you talk about then yes the very wanting can be hindrance

"Happier"?

That's fair.

[Sugarcoat]

34 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

"Happier"?

That's fair.

It is indeed pretty common to feel happier during vacation that during work week 😂😂😂

[UnbornTao]

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

It is indeed pretty common to feel happier during vacation that during work week 😂😂😂

🤣

[Eskilon]

What is, What is ?