Nisargadatta and Tony Parsons discussion (gpt)

[Breakingthewall]

8 minutes ago, James123 said:

Yes. You are the One, who is aware of the body but not the body. So body can die, but not You, because You never born.

34 minutes ago, James123 said:

 

then the body is an illusion. Why an illusion? Because it can die? So illusion is what can die? 

[PurpleTree]

Just now, Breakingthewall said:

then the body is an illusion. Why an illusion? Because it can die? So illusion is what can die? 

So i don’t want to be the spokesperson for radical nonduality 

But what they usually would say is the separate self is an illusion(and the only illusion) the body, the tree etc. is an appearance.

[Breakingthewall]

5 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

So i don’t want to be the spokesperson for radical nonduality 

But what they usually would say is the separate self is an illusion(and the only illusion) the body, the tree etc. is an appearance.

You could say that everything is the same nature and interconnected, but If there is such a thing as a tree, to say it's an appearance is to deny its character as a tree. It's something else, an empty hologram. Why is it an empty hologram? Because it seems that to me?

[gettoefl]

22 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

You could say that everything is the same nature and interconnected, but If there is such a thing as a tree, to say it's an appearance is to deny its character as a tree. It's something else, an empty hologram. Why is it an empty hologram? Because it seems that to me?

Are you a materialist or an idealist? For me forms are illusion; so is time space and separation. Only what is changeless is real. All else is keeping the dream alive.

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

Are you a materialist or an idealist? For me forms are illusion; so is time space and separation. Only what is changeless is real. All else is keeping the dream alive.

I'm nothing of those, if you define something it's just a definition that you are doing, and this is a limit. If you want to be limitless, you should forget any definition because a definition is something that limits the reality. If the reality is unlimited, it's undefinable by definition 

What you can do is perceive the tree, be open to it's reality, be one with it, but you can't say that it's an illusion because it's a separation and a limit that you are creating in your mind, a barrier 

Edited 3 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[gettoefl]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I'm nothing of those, if you define something it's just a definition that you are doing, and this is a limit. If you want to be limitless, you should forget any definition because a definition is something that limits the reality. If the reality is unlimited, it's undefinable by definition 

We live in a place that admits definitions so we need definitions to undo definitions. We live in an apparent dual reality. We need to roll back one side of the coin and so we need a metaphysics and an epistemology to do so. For me mind is real and matter is unreal.

[Breakingthewall]

5 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

We live in a place that admits definitions so we need definitions to undo definitions. We live in an apparent dual reality. We need to roll back one side of the coin and so we need a metaphysics and an epistemology to do so. For me mind is real and matter is unreal.

You need definitions in the limited perspective, but if you want to place yourself in the unlimited perspective, definitions are limits. If there is any definition, you are in the limited perspective. 

The ontology that's needed to make possible locating yourself in the unlimited perspective is a open ontology that makes your structure transparent. The opposition between real and illusion is not open, is limited, closed

[James123]

50 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

then the body is an illusion. Why an illusion? Because it can die? So illusion is what can die? 

Body is appears to be real, however it is not ultimately real. İt exist only temporarily, conditionally, as appearances.

The body comes and goes, the mind comes and goes. Even the sense of "me" comes and goes.

But Your never.

[gettoefl]

12 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

You need definitions in the limited perspective, but if you want to place yourself in the unlimited perspective, definitions are limits. If there is any definition, you are in the limited perspective. 

The ontology that's needed to make possible locating yourself in the unlimited perspective is a open ontology that makes your structure transparent. The opposition between real and illusion is not open, is limited, closed

For me there is illusion then there is unillusion if you will and this is the opening or the miracle. For example someone slaps me. I feel angry and immediately I say how silly, this is utterly unreal. The slapper is wholly innocent and pristine perfection. And gosh I guess I am too.

Edited 3 hours ago by gettoefl

[Breakingthewall]

19 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

For me there is illusion then there is unillusion if you will and this is the opening or the miracle. For example someone slaps me. I feel angry and immediately I say how silly, this is utterly unreal. The slapper is wholly innocent and pristine perfection. And gosh I guess I am too.

If someone kidnaps your 4-year-old children to sexually exploit them, would you laugh too, because it's innocent pristine perfection? Denying the reality doesn't work, but it's your choice. 

Reality is what it is, defining it is something that happens in the reality, then can't encompass the reality. "Illusion" is an idea that happens in the actual flow of reality, it can't define the flow, if you don't see this, you can't break the limited perspective 

[gettoefl]

10 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

If someone kidnaps your 4-year-old children to sexually exploit them, would you laugh too, because it's innocent pristine perfection? Denying the reality doesn't work, but it's your choice. 

Reality is what it is, defining it is something that happens in the reality, then can't encompass the reality. "Illusion" is an idea that happens in the actual flow of reality, it can't define the flow, if you don't see this, you can't break the limited perspective 

Not denial. All kinds of evil stuff is going to take place. And sometimes I get my share. This is why one needs to expedite awakening, to get beyond all that nonsense so it doesn't make one flinch any longer. What I know is, I am doing everything to myself! These are my lessons I needed to heal myself.

Illusion for me is what blocks the real. The appearance hides the essence. It beguiles me and encaptivates me and keeps me spinning my wheels so I never go within to undo it. It's a masterfully ingenious strategy, fool proof indeed but not God-proof.