What is next after no-self?

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Mathdaddyg

Haha! l I work down that way - if you ever happenchance to Monash Medical Centre, you will see the Tash no self clad in tradie flouros lol.

No self in action in construction - hand out hard truth, deliver bad news - *I* (so to speak) don't care... no ego there to worry about how the news will be received

 

 

[Mathdaddyg]

@Natasha Tori Maru AHAHAH that’s crazy small world wtf lol , yeah my dad lives in Dingley while I live in Sandy so weirdly close yet brought together by a dude from America lol

AHAHAH the self chose to be a tradie what are the odds 

[Breakingthewall]

On 5/8/2025 at 5:51 AM, MaskedFool said:

I managed to have no self experiences thanks to Leo's guide to enlightenment. Basically the discovery that "I" don't exist anywhere through self inquiry and some eerie sensations in my head. Is this enough to consider yourself enlightened or are there more steps I need to follow now? I heard all you have to do next is try to embody the realizations in daily life but what do you think?

The realization of no self, at least for me, it means that you collapse the separation between subject and object, between receiving center and experience. That is, there is no center that receives the information, but rather there is a living flow, and this flow takes the form of a perceiver perceiving. "Perceiving" or being conscious ceases to have meaning since what exists is the flow of reality. Then reality can recognize its nature, since it has broken through the limits. Perceiving becomes equivalent to existing, and with no limitations, the total openness of reality manifests.

[Princess Arabia]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The realization of no self, at least for me, it means that you collapse the separation between subject and object, between receiving center and experience. That is, there is no center that receives the information, but rather there is a living flow, and this flow takes the form of a perceiver perceiving. "Perceiving" or being conscious ceases to have meaning since what exists is the flow of reality. Then reality can recognize its nature, since it has broken through the limits. Perceiving becomes equivalent to existing, and with no limitations, the total openness of reality manifests.

This fits perfectly I think but what I think is missing here is you seem to think someone can make something happen. I say it happens all by itself. Maybe with the help of some practices but that would still be just an appearance as the center isn't really there.

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Princess Arabia said:

This fits perfectly I think but what I think is missing here is you seem to think someone can make something happen. I say it happens all by itself. Maybe with the help of some practices but that would still be just an appearance as the center isn't really there.

I would say that in the flow of reality that is occurring, there is a stable structure, a totally real relational node, which is the self. The flow of reality creates forms of enormous complexity.  only observe, listen, and feel what you are. One of those forms is the self, and this self decides to collapse. You can say it's transitory or illusory in the sense that it's not really a center of perception; it's a mirage. Perception itself is a mirage. It's existence existing, but within it there is what we call the self, which makes decisions. These decisions are the flow. There's no difference between deciding and the flow, because it really is the flow. It's not as if the decision is predetermined.  at the moment it occurs, that's the flow of reality. It's exactly the same. 

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

I would say that in the flow of reality that is occurring, there is a stable structure, a totally real relational node, which is the self. The flow of reality creates forms of enormous complexity.  only observe, listen, and feel what you are. One of those forms is the self, and this self decides to collapse. You can say it's transitory or illusory in the sense that it's not really a center of perception; it's a mirage. Perception itself is a mirage. It's existence existing, but within it there is what we call the self, which makes decisions. These decisions are the flow. There's no difference between deciding and the flow, because it really is the flow. It's not as if the decision is predetermined.  at the moment it occurs, that's the flow of reality. It's exactly the same. 

OK.

And don't say, "that's it, youre not going to rebut and argue", lol. No, not today. Hehe

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Princess Arabia said:

OK.

And don't say, "that's it, youre not going to rebut and argue", lol. No, not today. Hehe

12 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

 

Ok, then Im going to a answer in your place: all that you're saying is illusion, there's no self or flow, nothing has ever happened, there's no one to whom it's happened, this is simply nothingness.

Then I answer: What do you mean there's nothing? And if they locked you in a box with 300 rats that haven't eaten in a month, and also piranhas, would you say there's nothing?

[Princess Arabia]

16 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Ok, then Im going to a answer in your place: all that you're saying is illusion, there's no self or flow, nothing has ever happened, there's no one to whom it's happened, this is simply nothingness.

Then I answer: What do you mean there's nothing? And if they locked you in a box with 300 rats that haven't eaten in a month, and also piranhas, would you say there's nothing?

Nothing is being the rats and the piranhas. Nothing as in something nothing. It has no qualities All that appears cannot appear from something that's a something. Something that is no-thing, aka nothing, is what's being everything. If that's the case then nothing is really happening as this no-thing is also the space in which everything seemingly happens. How can something actually be happening when everything is everything and there's nothing outside nothing/everything to make nothing/everythjng happen. A happening requires space and time and this nothing is also being space and time. Not sure how else to explain this.

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, Princess Arabia said:

Nothing is being the rats and the piranhas. Nothing as in something nothing. It has no qualities All that appears cannot appear from something that's a something. Something that is no-thing, aka nothing, is what's being everything. If that's the case then nothing is really happening as this no-thing is also the space in which everything seemingly happens. How can something actually be happening when everything is everything and there's nothing outside nothing/everything to make nothing/everythjng happen. A happening requires space and time and this nothing is also being space and time. Not sure how else to explain this.

Let me explain it more simply. Reality is unlimited, and therefore infinite relationships and perspectives occur. They never began, nor do they have an end or limit. Therefore, the flow of reality has infinite causes and infinite possibilities. It is interconnected with infinite relationships, and is what we could call "everything." You could say that the substance that relates is not something, but it doesn't matter; the fact of relating, reflecting, is something, is everything, and it's rised to infinity power 

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

and therefore infinite relationships and perspectives occur.

That's the illusion. For perspectives to occur, separation has to be the case and there's none.

[Princess Arabia]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Therefore, the flow of reality has infinite causes and infinite possibilities.

For there to be a cause, there has to be a meaning and destination and  there is none.

[Mathdaddyg]

@Princess Arabia which are apart of that flow. Caused and conditions still arise yet there is no identity to match on to it so it becomes just flow with stuff that happens.

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, Mathdaddyg said:

@Princess Arabia which are apart of that flow. Caused and conditions still arise yet there is no identity to match on to it so it becomes just flow with stuff that happens.

I really don't think anything is actually moving, only appears that way. The observer is what creates time and space which is needed for a flow and an actual happening. 

[Breakingthewall]

24 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

I really don't think anything is actually moving, only appears that way. The observer is what creates time and space which is needed for a flow and an actual happening. 

What observer, if there is no self? Everything is changing, endless becoming. If you like call it illusory ok, but it's changing always without end, then it's caused by infinite (imaginary) causes and is effect of infinite possibilities. If you call them imaginary ok, but they are. It's exactly the same than real 

[James123]

@Princess Arabia @Breakingthewall there are no observer nor observed.

self is just not body and mind. It is entire duality.

Just sit back. 

Be.

Still.

Free.

Edited Friday at 11:46 PM by James123

[Mathdaddyg]

@Princess Arabia it could be moving or it’s not moving , we actually don’t know but what it does seem like regardless if you say it’s imaginary etc.. causes and conditions do play a part in creating this dream.

[Princess Arabia]

5 minutes ago, Mathdaddyg said:

@Princess Arabia it could be moving or it’s not moving , we actually don’t know but what it does seem like regardless if you say it’s imaginary etc.. causes and conditions do play a part in creating this dream.

OK.

[Breakingthewall]

28 minutes ago, Mathdaddyg said:

@Princess Arabia it could be moving or it’s not moving , we actually don’t know but what it does seem like regardless if you say it’s imaginary etc.. causes and conditions do play a part in creating this dream.

But it's not a dream because no one is dreaming it, nor is there anything more real to compare it to. It's simply the reality. It's movement is it's will, its relationship are it's intelligence. It's not that the intelligence is creating it, it is the intelligence. the movement itself is the will. The separation is zero, it's not a creator because the flow is the creator and the creation 

Edited yesterday at 12:17 AM by Breakingthewall

[Carl-Richard]

In Enlightenment, no-self sticks with you from moment to moment. If you had realized no-self at that level, there would be nobody to do anything. And this is meant as literally as it can be meant. You wouldn't even be in control of your body.

Edited yesterday at 12:24 AM by Carl-Richard

[Breakingthewall]

16 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

In Enlightenment, no-self sticks with you from moment to moment. If you had realized no-self at that level, there would be nobody to do anything. And this is meant as literally as it can be meant. You wouldn't even be in control of your body.

No self means that the perceptor and the perception are just the form of the flow, doesn't mean that the self dissapear. It is real, as a form in the flow. 

Btw, it's not the final step. When the flow is without separation, it's nature can manifest. It's opensess without limit, and in that openess the nature of the reality manifests: total, absolute potential. More than potential, totality. The end of the lack, absolute fullness.