Survival and suffering is external motivation

[Carl-Richard]

When you identify with something that compels you to do something, i.e. it's you who compels you to do it, that's internal motivation. Survival and suffering is when you fundamentally don't identify with what is happening. You identify with your limited self, and the rest is external. And in the external, there is a part of you deep down that doesn't want to do it, you don't like it, there is resistance, but you have to do it in order to survive. That's external motivation. But if you accept what is happening, it becomes your identity. And if you accept everything that is happening, your identity becomes everything; your identity becomes God. Everything is internal motivation, everything springs out of you, everything is your own will, because you are everything. Acceptance is key.

Edited Wednesday at 06:35 PM by Carl-Richard

[James123]

6 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

But if you accept what is happening, it becomes your identity. And if you accept everything that is happening, your identity becomes God.

Yet even God dissolves too. Because full acceptance leaves no boundary, no name.

You say, “My identity becomes God.”

But, You are before any identity. Before God. Before even the idea of becoming.

You are what remains when there is no more resistance, no more trying to be, or not to be.

In full acceptance, even the one who accepts disappears.

What is left is You, wordless, boundless, not something you possess, but what You always are.

[Carl-Richard]

7 minutes ago, James123 said:

Yet even God dissolves too. Because full acceptance leaves no boundary, no name.

You say, “My identity becomes God.”

But, You are before any identity. Before God. Before even the idea of becoming.

You are what remains when there is no more resistance, no more trying to be, or not to be.

In full acceptance, even the one who accepts disappears.

What is left is You, wordless, boundless, not something you possess, but what You always are.

God is a name for everything.

[James123]

9 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

God is a name for everything.

What is god?

If God dissolves too, then what remains?

[Carl-Richard]

20 minutes ago, James123 said:

What is god?

If God dissolves too, then what remains?

God doesn't dissolve (in the realm of the known). You can drop the name of God, but God won't be dropped.

[James123]

12 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

God doesn't dissolve (in the realm of the known). You can drop the name of God, but God won't be dropped.

So, what is God?

If you call god, it isn't. The moment you name it, it becomes an object, a thought within the mind, a shadow of what is real.

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, James123 said:

So, what is God?

Everything.

 

1 hour ago, James123 said:

If you call god, it isn't. The moment you name it, it becomes an object, a thought within the mind, a shadow of what is real.

Yep, which is why it's a name for everything.

[James123]

8 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Everything.

 

Yep, which is why it's a name for everything.

Saying “God is everything” or “God is the name of everything”, that is you. That is the mind.

The mind is very clever. Through thought, through attachment, through fear and longing, you have formed the idea of God.

God is an illusion created by the mind. You think about God, you talk about God, you believe in God. But all of it arises from the known, from memory and thought. This “God” you hold onto is a projection of the past, a belief sustained by conditioning. The moment the mind is free from the known, the illusion of God dissolves. Because God was never separate from the mind, God was the mind’s own invention.

you invented God as something to hold onto for comfort, for meaning, for security.

It is still the movement of the self, of thought trying to find permanence.

So when you, the self, the centre, the thinker when that completely ends, then what you called God also comes to an end.

Because without the thinker, there is no image to hold, no belief to sustain, no name to cling to.

Therefore, god was you who created it. Not out of truth, but out of need.

And when that need ends, there is no you… and no god.

Only being. Only what Is.

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, James123 said:

Saying “God is everything” or “God is the name of everything”, that is you. That is the mind.

Saying "that is the mind", that is the mind.

 

4 hours ago, James123 said:

Only being. Only what Is.

"Being" is a name. "Only what is" is a name.

[James123]

5 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Saying "that is the mind", that is the mind.

 

"Being" is a name. "Only what is" is a name.

Of course, that's all i am saying. 

Words can only point.

Even to call it “Truth or Being or What Is” creates distance.

The moment you name it, you are no longer with it, have stepped away and turn the nameless into an idea, a concept, something to seek, to grasp, to experience, to believe in.

It is not something apart from You.

But without naming, without seeking, without becoming. No distance, no separation, no word, no name, no image, no seeker, no sought.

You are.

That’s it.

[Carl-Richard]

48 minutes ago, James123 said:

Of course, that's all i am saying. 

Words can only point.

Even to call it “Truth or Being or What Is” creates distance.

The moment you name it, you are no longer with it, have stepped away and turn the nameless into an idea, a concept, something to seek, to grasp, to experience, to believe in.

It is not something apart from You.

But without naming, without seeking, without becoming. No distance, no separation, no word, no name, no image, no seeker, no sought.

You are.

That’s it.

So naming it "God" or "Being" doesn't really matter.

[James123]

14 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Everything.

 

14 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Yep, which is why it's a name for everything.

 

17 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

your identity becomes God.

To say, “God is everything, God has many names, your identity becomes God” is a belief. A construction of thought. It is the mind seeking comfort, significance, identity in something vast it cannot grasp.

But to say, “Only God, only Being, only Me, only Truth”, if there is no belief behind it, no thinker, no identity speaking then it is not a statement of knowledge. It is a simple pointing.

A flame without smoke.

But be very watchful. Because even that can become a belief the moment the “me” enters. The moment you know it, hold it, claim it. Therefore, it is no longer "Truth".

"Truth or Being or God" is never in what is said, only in what is seen without the seer, experiencer, thinker, realizer or believer.

[Leo Gura]

@James123 My patience for your verbal games is running thin.

If you keep going down this road you will lose access to this forum.

[James123]

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@James123 My patience for your verbal games is running thin.

If you keep going down this road you will lose access to this forum.

This is what you just write in the forum. Where is the acceptance, where is love?

Ah, so your patience is running thin? Wonderful. Let it run out completely. Because only when your patience for lies, for ego, for mental gymnastics is exhausted, can the real begin.

But don’t threaten truth. Truth doesn’t care for forums, rules, or permissions. Truth was here before you were born, and it will remain long after your body turns to dust.

Wake up before death comes to your body. Because if you don’t, you will suffer immensely.

Not because of punishment from above. But because you will realize too late that you never lived, never saw, never loved fully.

Now, let me show you what is deeply wrong. You said:

"Since I’m unlimited, I can rape, commit murder, and other crimes."

This is not insight. This is delusion. This is not the voice of God, but the voice of a hungry ego pretending to be God. When you truly see that you are infinite, there is no desire left to harm. Only compassion, only deep reverence for all life.

The one who speaks of violence in the name of freedom is still in bondage.

So yes, wake up. Before the body ends.

Before the dream of “I can do anything” turns into the nightmare of “I did nothing real.”

Sit. Be still. Die now, before death comes.

Only then will you know what it means to live.

I am not here to please you. I am here to wake you up.

You want silence? Then fall into it. Let the mind break. Let the ego scream. Let all games drop.

Only then, only then, do you taste what is. Not mine, not yours. Just this.

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, James123 said:

This is what you just write in the forum. Where is the acceptance, where is love?

Ah, so your patience is running thin? Wonderful. Let it run out completely. Because only when your patience for lies, for ego, for mental gymnastics is exhausted, can the real begin.

But don’t threaten truth. Truth doesn’t care for forums, rules, or permissions. Truth was here before you were born, and it will remain long after your body turns to dust.

Wake up before death comes to your body. Because if you don’t, you will suffer immensely.

Not because of punishment from above. But because you will realize too late that you never lived, never saw, never loved fully.

Now, let me show you what is deeply wrong. You said:

"Since I’m unlimited, I can rape, commit murder, and other crimes."

This is not insight. This is delusion. This is not the voice of God, but the voice of a hungry ego pretending to be God. When you truly see that you are infinite, there is no desire left to harm. Only compassion, only deep reverence for all life.

The one who speaks of violence in the name of freedom is still in bondage.

So yes, wake up. Before the body ends.

Before the dream of “I can do anything” turns into the nightmare of “I did nothing real.”

Sit. Be still. Die now, before death comes.

Only then will you know what it means to live.

I am not here to please you. I am here to wake you up.

You want silence? Then fall into it. Let the mind break. Let the ego scream. Let all games drop.

Only then, only then, do you taste what is. Not mine, not yours. Just this.

You could make an extra thread and talk only about the semantics. About why you think calling it god creates distance or whatever.

[Carl-Richard]

I reduced names used in the thread for clarity's sake (but not so much because I was externally motivated ).

Edited Wednesday at 02:52 PM by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

The reason I use the words "internal vs external motivation" is because I believe internal motivation is very important for doing anything in life, but since life itself is intrinsically external motivation, you can never be completely internally motivated, so it's about finding a balance.

Edited Wednesday at 02:43 PM by Carl-Richard

[UnbornTao]

21 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Survival and suffering is when you fundamentally don't identify with what is happening. You identify with your limited self, and the rest is external. And in the external, there is a part of you deep down that doesn't want to do it, you don't like it, there is resistance, but you have to do it in order to survive.

What?

21 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

But if you accept what is happening, it becomes your identity. And if you accept everything that is happening, your identity becomes everything; your identity becomes God. Everything is internal motivation, everything springs out of you, everything is your own will, because you are everything. Acceptance is key.

Quite the leap.

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

What?

Quite the leap.

What are the anti-natalists so worried about? "We're imposing life on somebody who didn't choose it". They did not "self-determine" their existence. And in their existence, they don't self-determine everything that happens (only a part, if that). So they suffer. But if your self-identity is equal to everything that happens, then you self-determine everything.

The model that describes internal vs external motivation is called "Self-determination theory". Internal motivation is about self-determined behavior, doing what you feel compelled to do by yourself. If you are the entirety of reality, then everything that happens in reality is you doing what you feel compelled to do by yourself. So everything that happens becomes internal motivation. It's determined by you. You are causing everything to happen, you are choosing everything to happen. 

Acceptance is allowing something to exist, and ultimately, it's about making something a part of yourself. If you deny something the right to exist, that is you resist it, you reject it, you don't want it to be a part of your reality. You want to be separated from it. You want to not be with it, be it. If you want to not be separate from it, to love it, then that's acceptance. Acceptance is just another word for love.

When you love somebody, be it your partner or family, you accept them into your life. When your love is finite, you accept only some things but not others. But if your love is infinite, you accept everything. Accepting everything is loving God, loving yourself as all of reality.

Edited Wednesday at 06:33 PM by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

We usually think of internal vs external motivation in a human social context. External motivation could for example be when you're motivated by avoiding shame (which is an internalized form of social disapproval), or avoiding punishment (by another social agent). But you can of course extend it to include non-social contexts as well, e.g. avoiding pain (a form of punishment), or avoiding fear (of something that threatens you, e.g. a predator). When you extend it to include anything external to yourself, then you're at this metaphysical kind of internal vs external motivation.

But one should keep in mind that the fact that everything external to you is a form of metaphysical external motivation, that doesn't devalue the importance of pursuing internal motivation in less metaphysical forms like in the social world (you shouldn't let people push yourself around too much). Doing what you want largely irrespective of shame, social disapproval or social punishment (but not fully independent of it) is very important for building your life and especially for finding your life purpose. Your life purpose fundamentally shouldn't be dictated by other people. It should be dictated by you.

But of course, if you are a socially calibrated person that people can stand being around, then it will be in your own best interest and aligned with your wants to be somewhat socially calibrated.

Edited Thursday at 01:59 PM by Carl-Richard