China seems more conscious than US in some ways.

[Rigel]

16 hours ago, BlueOak said:

As always, on many things, human consciousness remains the same.
 

 

 

Bullshit everywhere!

 

[enchanted]

On 03/08/2025 at 4:01 AM, BlueOak said:

Say one thing outside of the goverment line and disappear.

True, but compare that to toxic free speech that includes people freely spreading misinformation that tears society apart. Like we see in the US.

On 03/08/2025 at 4:01 AM, BlueOak said:

Be a different culture or nation on one of their maps and disappear.

Threaten, Threaten, Threaten - Succeed and thus in inspire more threats and war globally.
Take any land and sea you want and thus inspire the same and help destabalise the globe.

You could easily say all this about the US too. The USA is famous for segregation and more recently treating immigrants like shit (even before Trump).

On 03/08/2025 at 4:01 AM, BlueOak said:

This one party line is objectively wrong.. I could point to 50 countries with one party that are corrupt and their quality of life or domestic situation is terrible. 

Yes democracy is better 9 times out of 10. But that one time, the one-party could be better, like in China perhaps. 

 

You have good points however so thanks for engaging. 

Edited August 5 by enchanted

[enchanted]

Speaking of being more conscious here's a summary of the current Chinese government's goals:

https://en.ndrc.gov.cn/policies/202203/P020220315511411039433.pdf

[Jodistrict]

China is providing a serious alternative model to American style democracy.  In China, you have an authoritarian government ruled by the Communist Party.   But, America is turning into an authoritarian government ruled by billionaires.   With the billionaires increasingly inclined to take direct rule, like Trump has, rather than using surrogate politicians, the American system is looking increasingly capricious and unstable.   The Communist bureaucracy assures that incompetent people are weeded out of the system and has provided a stable means of transfer of power.  The world will eventually adopt the government model which works the best.

[enchanted]

[Twentyfirst]

Everything America says about China is a projection or a prediction of themselves

Like when they say the Chinese are committing genocide against the uyghur muslim it just means that America has committed genocide against countless ethnic groups. First off Americans hates Uyghurs because they are ethnic and they hate muslims because they are muslim. So they are only saying that as a way to smear China. I don't think this so called genocide is anywhere as bad as Western media reports it

Or when they say China is a social credit score state. It's a prediction of what they will do to their own citizens. Palantir anybody?

[Twentyfirst]

On 8/3/2025 at 11:01 AM, BlueOak said:

Millions of people disappear when disease strikes. Locked in to die.
Say one thing outside of the goverment line and disappear.
Be a different culture or nation on one of their maps and disappear.
Threaten, Threaten, Threaten - Succeed and thus in inspire more threats and war globally.
Take any land and sea you want and thus inspire the same and help destabalise the globe.
Build endless cities nobodies living in, to sustain fake economic booms - exactly the same as the US (only the US do it with individual homes)
 

1. Proof that millions die when disease strikes?

2. Duh, it's called maintained power. CCC. Chinese cancel culture. If you are running a nation of 1.5 billion people and some idiot trying to play hero messes with your flow of course you'll imprison or kill them. It's perverted to think otherwise 

3. What do you mean? How can you be a different culture or nation on one of their maps? How many maps do they have? How can another nation be on it. You must be talking about Tibet?

4. They are an empire. Threats are normal. But you know who threatens and inspires more global war at a level 10x higher?

5. Are you talking about Taiwan? Why not wait until they actually do something to blame them for that?

6. Yeah because the US stock market and Wall Street derivatives don't cause boom and bust cycles. Doesn't Uber make zero profit or something but they are valued at $100B?

This is the common Western mistake. To put the other under a microscope for their crimes (all nations commit crimes) and then be completely blind and deaf when it comes to Western crimes (which are always 10x more savage). Not all corruption, theft, slavery, and conquering are the same. Westerners need to understand that there are levels of savagery to it and it's not equal

 

[BlueOak]

5 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

1. Proof that millions die when disease strikes?

2. Duh, it's called maintained power. CCC. Chinese cancel culture. If you are running a nation of 1.5 billion people and some idiot trying to play hero messes with your flow of course you'll imprison or kill them. It's perverted to think otherwise 

3. What do you mean? How can you be a different culture or nation on one of their maps? How many maps do they have? How can another nation be on it. You must be talking about Tibet?

4. They are an empire. Threats are normal. But you know who threatens and inspires more global war at a level 10x higher?

5. Are you talking about Taiwan? Why not wait until they actually do something to blame them for that?

6. Yeah because the US stock market and Wall Street derivatives don't cause boom and bust cycles. Doesn't Uber make zero profit or something but they are valued at $100B?

This is the common Western mistake. To put the other under a microscope for their crimes (all nations commit crimes) and then be completely blind and deaf when it comes to Western crimes (which are always 10x more savage). Not all corruption, theft, slavery, and conquering are the same. Westerners need to understand that there are levels of savagery to it and it's not equal

 

Proof I am tone deaf to Western war crimes? Do you want 500 quotes where I am not?

1, How many do you want, its not as if they are hard to find:
A) Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/world/china/nearly-2-million-excess-deaths-followed-chinas-sudden-end-covid-curbs-study-2023-08-25/

Which included mass-testing and stringent and persistent quarantine lockdown

B) Think Global Health
https://www.thinkglobalhealth.org/article/shadow-chinas-lockdown-remains

• China’s problems stem from how Xi’s administration ended its zero-COVID policy, which relied primarily on draconian lockdowns to eradicate the coronavirus. 
• They raked in profits, but China had to rely on lockdowns to keep the coronavirus suppressed.  

 I like this article, it says how China were initially trying to ignore it at their peril, and then they went too far the opposite way, sounds familiar to me as to what many governments did, only China was draconian, unsurprisingly.

C) Radio Free Asia
https://www.rfa.org/english/china/2024/12/06/china-zero-covid-anniversary/

Guo and his mother were left to get by on potatoes and cabbage, while they heard of elderly people who lived alone without internet access starving to death that winter.

2) Its perverted to think you need to kill 1 man's voice if you've a population of 1.5 billion people. That's a fragile country. 

3) Tibet | East Turkestan | China's absurd amount of border disputes | China just claiming the entire south China sea, screw every other country there. - Typical authoritarian greed for territory.

4) Yes Russia. Threats are not normal. They've become normal since BRICS started taking power, threats destabilise the world. - Like that other country you like so much, America. The fact BRICS are doing it now doesn't make it any less destabilising.

5) China have been doing something for the last decade. When they are standing in Taiwan it's far too late.

6) For some reason, you are under the mistaken impression I like the US. Its the typical BRICS answer. The US are bad. And? What does that have to do with China's boom and bust sucking?

[Twentyfirst]

1 hour ago, BlueOak said:

Proof I am tone deaf to Western war crimes? Do you want 500 quotes where I am not?

1, How many do you want, its not as if they are hard to find:
A) Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/world/china/nearly-2-million-excess-deaths-followed-chinas-sudden-end-covid-curbs-study-2023-08-25/

Which included mass-testing and stringent and persistent quarantine lockdown

B) Think Global Health
https://www.thinkglobalhealth.org/article/shadow-chinas-lockdown-remains

• China’s problems stem from how Xi’s administration ended its zero-COVID policy, which relied primarily on draconian lockdowns to eradicate the coronavirus. 
• They raked in profits, but China had to rely on lockdowns to keep the coronavirus suppressed.  

 I like this article, it says how China were initially trying to ignore it at their peril, and then they went too far the opposite way, sounds familiar to me as to what many governments did, only China was draconian, unsurprisingly.

C) Radio Free Asia
https://www.rfa.org/english/china/2024/12/06/china-zero-covid-anniversary/

Guo and his mother were left to get by on potatoes and cabbage, while they heard of elderly people who lived alone without internet access starving to death that winter.

2) Its perverted to think you need to kill 1 man's voice if you've a population of 1.5 billion people. That's a fragile country. 

3) Tibet | East Turkestan | China's absurd amount of border disputes | China just claiming the entire south China sea, screw every other country there. - Typical authoritarian greed for territory.

4) Yes Russia. Threats are not normal. They've become normal since BRICS started taking power, threats destabilise the world. - Like that other country you like so much, America. The fact BRICS are doing it now doesn't make it any less destabilising.

5) China have been doing something for the last decade. When they are standing in Taiwan it's far too late.

6) For some reason, you are under the mistaken impression I like the US. Its the typical BRICS answer. The US are bad. And? What does that have to do with China's boom and bust sucking?

As long as you are comparing Chinese crimes or Russian crimes to American crimes then your entire worldview is messed up from propaganda. If you were honest and had clarity you would admit that USA, Russia, and China all have crimes but USA always has been, is, and always will be 10 times worse in their barbarism and corruption both domestically and foreign 

[BlueOak]

@Twentyfirst

The only time I have mentioned the US in these posts was to say corruption is high there. You are doing the comparison. I loathe morality arguments; they do not cross cultural, ethical, or even individual perspectives well.

If you want this line of reasoning: You'd have been better to say, from your European perspective.... your argument is flawed because... but you are too laser-focused on the US, a country I increasingly don't like or trust. It clouds every sentence you make from actually focusing on what's being said.

If you want to get past the noise, just focus on the message, not who is saying it, where they are from, or why.

*Oh and I repeatedly do say what you've said, I did so throughout this thread because it brings people closer together to acknowledge everyone operates off the six human needs, and all they do is in service of meeting them. Countries play zero sum games with people's lives all day every day. Its sick, but first we've got to deflate this your right i'm wrong, because this side is good and that bad mechanic that is in everyone's mind.
 

Edited August 31 by BlueOak

[Twentyfirst]

Just now, BlueOak said:

@Twentyfirst

The only time I have mentioned the US in these posts was to say corruption is high there. You are doing the comparison. Nowhere in my posts have I done so. I loathe morality arguments; they do not cross cultural, ethical, or even individual perspectives well.

If you want this line of reasoning: You'd have been better to say, from your European perspective.... your argument is flawed because... but you are too laser-focused on the US, a country I increasingly don't like or trust. It clouds every sentence you make from actually focusing on what's being said.

But if you want to get past the noise, just focus on the message, not who is saying it, where they are from, or why.
 

This topic is called china being more conscious than US

US is Europe, duh 

You are saying what everybody knows. China which is a country full of unconscious humans is corrupt. So is every country. Nothing new  

[BlueOak]

2 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

US is Europe, duh 

We've got a long way to go on this one. Here's a reflection for you.

Russia is China.

[Twentyfirst]

35 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

We've got a long way to go on this one. Here's a reflection for you.

Russia is China.

If you are talking about BRICS then good. BRICS is necessary to combat American hegemony. What I meant is that Americans are actually Europeans by blood and settlement

It's because Europeans exist in the way that they do that every single country in the world has to arm itself to the teeth and spent crazy amount of money, time, and energy on defense. Imagine all that money being funneled into something that can benefit humanity

But I don't completely disagree with all your points so all I will say is yes China is far more conscious than the US in most ways which is the topic of this thread 

Edited August 31 by Twentyfirst

[BlueOak]

50 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

What I meant is that Americans are actually Europeans by blood and settlement

It's because Europeans exist in the way that they do that every single country in the world has to arm itself to the teeth and spent crazy amount of money, time, and energy on defense. Imagine all that money being funneled into something that can benefit humanity

But I don't completely disagree with all your points so all I will say is yes China is far more conscious than the US in most ways which is the topic of this thread. 

Fair enough. I personally get fed up with being called American in these conversations; it drives me nuts.

Yes on Europe. Any large country you can name does the same thing given the opportunity, resources, and technological edge. Humans are humans the world over, and it's been that way since the dawn of time. There are outliers, as always, but it's not the major powers.

Describe how the collective of China is more conscious than the collective of the US, without a moral argument being the central point.
 

This may surprise you, because people may think I hate Russians in my description of their foreign policy, I don't, this man has a lot of takes I agree with.

Its not a perfect analogy, but the Kings part is. The reason the world fights is in the fact money is the controlling force of the world. It will always fight while this is the case, because it requires/rewards a zero-sum focus and approach. No matter who controls the world currency. Whether its gold, the dollar or the yuan there will be conflict if it's the central focus on which the world is based.

Edited August 31 by BlueOak

[Twentyfirst]

3 hours ago, BlueOak said:

Fair enough. I personally get fed up with being called American in these conversations; it drives me nuts.

Yes on Europe. Any large country you can name does the same thing given the opportunity, resources, and technological edge. Humans are humans the world over, and it's been that way since the dawn of time. There are outliers, as always, but it's not the major powers.

Describe how the collective of China is more conscious than the collective of the US, without a moral argument being the central point.
 

This may surprise you, because people may think I hate Russians in my description of their foreign policy, I don't, this man has a lot of takes I agree with.

Its not a perfect analogy, but the Kings part is. The reason the world fights is in the fact money is the controlling force of the world. It will always fight while this is the case, because it requires/rewards a zero-sum focus and approach. No matter who controls the world currency. Whether its gold, the dollar or the yuan there will be conflict if it's the central focus on which the world is based.

I can never split up your reply for some reason so I can't quote each one individually 

For me there is no difference between a European and an American since both are from the same origin. It would be like somebody from one city of China moving to another city in China. They are still Chinese 

No, not all humans act the same. There is no evidence for that. Europeans are extremely special in their brutality and war like nature. Extremely vicious both domestically and foreign. Obviously you will never believe me since there is so much propaganda the citizens have to be under for all this to continue. Not all empires expand in the same ways and not all humans have the exact same nature 

China is an Eastern country. That means the citizens will always be more conscious than the Westerners. Better family life, better faith, better work ethic, higher and faster maturity, less degradation and promiscuity, more in touch with their history and ancestry, they are protective of their culture and exclusive from others but not racist from superiority, and many others. They don't need anti depressant pills, therapy, nursing homes, day cares, police patrolling every block, dating coaches, and all the other "modern solutions" that westerners need. And if they do need these things it's nowhere near the same level. They don't have as much violence, as much people in prisons, as much obesity, as much mental illness, as many broken homes and single mothers and bastard kids and strange tik tok men with makeup. You have to admit the Europe/America whatever the hell you want to call it I prefer just the west. You have to admit that you guys are batshit crazy and stop deflecting and saying "well so is everyone else". No, your problems are not everyone else's problems. Just fix your own problems and move onto greater things. Stop blaming North Korea or iran or countries that don't even think about you as much as you are worried about them. Again this is impossible since from an early age you were taught that you are the only place with freedom and you must liberate the rest of the world that is under extreme oppression and are too underdeveloped to figure it out themselves. It's hard to reverse that programming. Imagine if for just 10 years all westerners shut up the F up about blacks, browns, yellows, South Americans, africans, middle easterners, asians, Russians, muslims, hindus, buddhists, communists, authoritarians, monarchs...and they just focused on improving their family units, self development, their own communities, mental and emotional sanity. Imagine how quickly they would advance (not just by tech but by humane standards). I don't know what you mean by moral argument. It's better to live as a Chinese than a European obviously. Easterners always live purer lives than Westerners

Good video. I think the kings or whatever he was talking about the end are being controlled by the individual/collective ego but it's a spiritual component most people miss when speaking about geopolitics 

I don't agree that there will always be conflict in the world. There have been civilizations that went tens of thousands of years without conflict, poverty, disease. Or there was conflict but it was very precise and for defense not just for the sake of conflict and glory. But obviously there history will be erased and rewritten. I don't like what China did to Tibet. Tibet was more advanced than we can imagine

[BlueOak]

@Twentyfirst

That was convincing. Well done. I'd agree internally China's collective consciousness, as a country, is more conscious than the US. Externally and individually, i'd argue differently, but collectively as a country, yes. The reason is that they have stricter social controls and embrace more aspects of socialism, which gives them a healthier social framework for things like family values, as you point out. Believe it or not, until they started expanding and pushing out into other countries or shared sea territories, becoming a threat, I used to want to live in China, I learned Mandarin for six months.

All human behaviour is to meet the six human needs. That's universal. This is why consciousnesses on the planet is not that different and follow a predictable pattern of development, reinforced by their peer group, which is what defines the upper limit for many people, and gives China a potential edge.

People are people the world over. They want things like safety, security, and food. Certainty, Significance, Connection etc, then comfort and a few luxuries if they can get them.

On a country level. I could point to thousands of years of history. And people's focus being so short, that collectively they don't see patterns in history as relevant anymore. But sadly, they are just playing out over and over again. China is not a benevolent power; it's got a bloody history just like everyone else, and now it's gaining an edge, it's ever trying to expand its influence and borders. - This is what is always happening due to money being the defining factor of everyone's lives, the world's currency is a de facto religion.

If China can take Taiwan diplomatically, it will. Economically, it will. Militarily, it will. Because it can. That's the only thing that matters to most leaders in power currently. Not in Europe. We've been happy to collectively build in relative peace, while American adventurism decided to engage Russian-backed and aligned regimes around the world. - Because it could. - Just like BRICS is doing now in places like Africa.

There's a large difference in European Cultures and American culture, their foreign policy, their governance, their military structure and economic policy/outlook. Treating them as one means we are having two different conversations and risks you doing what others accuse America of doing to India in BRICS, solidifying and rearming NATO (which is what's happened)

I'll end with: We are fixing our own problems. Russia is a problem, its directly threatening our security, or specifically, the aging KGB relic of Putin dreaming of the USSR is a problem we are fixing.

Edited September 1 by BlueOak

[Twentyfirst]

6 hours ago, BlueOak said:

@Twentyfirst

That was convincing. Well done. I'd agree internally China's collective consciousness, as a country, is more conscious than the US. Externally and individually, i'd argue differently, but collectively as a country, yes. The reason is that they have stricter social controls and embrace more aspects of socialism, which gives them a healthier social framework for things like family values, as you point out. Believe it or not, until they started expanding and pushing out into other countries or shared sea territories, becoming a threat, I used to want to live in China, I learned Mandarin for six months.

All human behaviour is to meet the six human needs. That's universal. This is why consciousnesses on the planet is not that different and follow a predictable pattern of development, reinforced by their peer group, which is what defines the upper limit for many people, and gives China a potential edge.

People are people the world over. They want things like safety, security, and food. Certainty, Significance, Connection etc, then comfort and a few luxuries if they can get them.

On a country level. I could point to thousands of years of history. And people's focus being so short, that collectively they don't see patterns in history as relevant anymore. But sadly, they are just playing out over and over again. China is not a benevolent power; it's got a bloody history just like everyone else, and now it's gaining an edge, it's ever trying to expand its influence and borders. - This is what is always happening due to money being the defining factor of everyone's lives, the world's currency is a de facto religion.

If China can take Taiwan diplomatically, it will. Economically, it will. Militarily, it will. Because it can. That's the only thing that matters to most leaders in power currently. Not in Europe. We've been happy to collectively build in relative peace, while American adventurism decided to engage Russian-backed and aligned regimes around the world. - Because it could. - Just like BRICS is doing now in places like Africa.

There's a large difference in European Cultures and American culture, their foreign policy, their governance, their military structure and economic policy/outlook. Treating them as one means we are having two different conversations and risks you doing what others accuse America of doing to India in BRICS, solidifying and rearming NATO (which is what's happened)

I'll end with: We are fixing our own problems. Russia is a problem, its directly threatening our security, or specifically, the aging KGB relic of Putin dreaming of the USSR is a problem we are fixing.

But if all countries are expansive then why not move to China even if they started taking over seas?

I think it comes down to individual vs collective societies. Even if China is starting to become corrupt the collective aspect will still provide a better life for people

Not everyone has a bloody history in the way that you may assume. Look at a country like Bhutan. Peaceful. If they have blood in their history I doubt it's as bad as what the Europeans did to the Native Americans. You can't group all people into the same bucket. Was Tibet violent bloodthirsty people just ready to conquer at the first chance?

I don't think we can project what will happen to Taiwan. Since WW2 America has been the main aggressor of the world not China. America has been dropping bombs, overthrowing governments, doing economic takeovers, in endless wars, setting up military bases literally everywhere, and bullying just about everyone. If China wanted to a big bad bully it would have done it already. I don't believe the white people want to help Taiwan because white people will always make very offensive remarks about asian people. Why do they care what happens to Taiwan? I understand why they would care about Ukraine but Taiwan? They don't give a shit. Just leave it alone 

Europe isn't so innocent. You don't think they are still stealing from Africa just like the good old days? You aren't gonna turn on the news and watch the president of France say "yeah so we just stole a gold mine in x African country because black people are inferior". They hide it from the people (they have European military or banks do their dirty work but not the average person). Look at them supporting Israel even after all that happened with Nazism 

USA and Europe call each other the west, call each other allies, and always run to defending in debate when the other is in trouble. AUS, Canada, USA, and EU are all mostly blindly supportive of each other just because they originate from the same place and have the same foundational values (and because they are white, which is why they have a soft spot for the whites in South Africa). And because they all have shared enemies. They all hate the same people (colored people). It's also why all these western countries are declining at the exact same rate, because they are the "same". If you ask a random person from Africa or anywhere in the global south if India and China are different they will say yes very different. If you ask that same African person if Canada and USA are different they will say no they are the same. Although I don't know what you mean with America arming NATO with India joining BRICS

Russia isn't doing anything to you. It's your own leaders who are selling you out and they need a boogeyman and Russia is the go to. Well actually Islam is the go to boogyman but think of this new Russia threat as a Cold War revival. One day Westerners will wonder how they were programmed to demonize Islam and Russia/China so much. These things aren't anywhere NEAR as bad as they want you to think. It's just a distraction while your own leaders pick your pocket, increase taxes, put military spending on the debt bill, and so much more. Europe could use a little bit of Islam and Chinese life principles which would actually provide the people with benefits if they dropped their unwarranted fear and actually learned from the source rather than the lying media which protects western war criminals and pedos. I could go to a random suburban neighborhood in America right now and find a lady walking her dog and I could just say the word "Islam" and she would scream at the top of her lungs and run away. This is a programmed response that makes absolutely no sense. Islam is great, Russia is awesome, China is cool. If the West wants to survive it's decline it will have to learn how to live in harmony with everyone and stop crying wolf over and over

[Twentyfirst]