The self

[Breakingthewall]

The self is a relational structure. It's something the human psyche creates based on relationships with others. Every microgesture, approval, disapproval, belonging, rejection, social assessment of right or wrong are bricks that stack on innate structural foundations, building the energetic structure of the self.

You see a person walking down the street and you see that they're composed of relationships upon relationships upon relationships. An entire interconnected energetic compendium functioning like a computer of enormous power, never stopping. It's absolutely unconscious, and it's not an illusion; it's as real as a rock, only on another plane of reality. It would be like saying that the Android program is an illusion. It's not. It's real. As a program, it works on a physical basis and executes and operates in an absolutely real way. The self is the same.

You can't erase the self; you can see it. When you see it, it doesn't disappear; it's still there, but you understand it. So you seek absolute cleanliness in your relationships, directness, openness, since you want your self to be clean, direct, open. This is how it aligns and you can see through it.

By seeing the self as a network of relationships, you free yourself from the need to defend or deny it; you can flow, open up, and let your structure be as clean and alive as the reality that sustains it. Freedom is not having no self, but having a transparent, open, and alive self, in direct relationship with the whole.

[James123]

20 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Freedom is not having no self, but having a transparent, open, and alive self, in direct relationship with the whole.

Still limited with the transparent self.

Any ideology is limited.

Edited July 10 by James123

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, James123 said:

Still limited with the transparent self.

Any ideology is limited.

It's not an ideology, it's a description, it's different. An ideology is a sistem of beliefs, a description is when you see a fact and then you translate in words. For example: big stones are difficult to handle.

[Someone here]

If  you are familiar with neo advaita teachers and teachings you likely know that the sense of individuality or separation is false or illusory. That there isn't an actual separate self inside the organism. Who you think you are is not who you actually are. Who you think are - the ego is literally just a thought. An arising sensation that says "im me here inside this body ".   When this thought disappear.. What is left is pure awareness of various perceptions and sensations without any personal relationship to them. Without "my perception and my sensation" identification.

You can grasp in direct experience that "you" is false identification with thought.. It is not real. Yet it sure apears real. But you make a good point about the self being like a software like the personality. What makes this body-mind here to have a different personality than that body-mind over there even tho there is no "person" to begin with? Obviously its some subconscious program or something like that. 

 

[Breakingthewall]

5 minutes ago, Someone here said:

  you are familiar with neo advaita teachers and teachings you likely know that the sense of individuality or separation is false or illusory.

That's a lie. All the neo advaita is confusing wrong perspective. It's like saying that if you hit yourself with a hammer it doesn't really hurt, pain is an illusion. 

7 minutes ago, Someone here said:

You can grasp in direct experience that "you" is false identification with thought

You are absolutely real. You are a structure that reality has formed with a biological basis and relational development. The philosophy that simplifies by saying it's "just a thought" is completely false. It's like being a flat-earther and laughing at those who believe the Earth is round, an invention so some narcissistic people can believe themselves special without spending money or going to the gym.

[Someone here]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

It's like saying that if you hit yourself with a hammer it doesn't really hurt, pain is an illusion. 

No they don't actually say that.  They say the whole world is real .only you are not .

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

You are absolutely real. You are a structure that reality has formed with a biological basis and relational development. The philosophy that simplifies by saying it's "just a thought" is completely false. It's like being a flat-earther and laughing at those who believe the Earth is round, an invention so some narcissistic people can believe themselves special without spending money or going to the gym.

Getting into hair splitting territory.  I do acknowledge your perspective that the self is like a software.

The ego is an incredibly intricate and highly complex sytem.  Yes Most of the spiritual teachings tend to oversimplify it saying "get rid of your ego and you'll be just fine" or even saying that the ego is the enemy and has to be killed. I mean.. we're talking about your current perception of reality. That's the very reason you're not criminally insane and you can function properly in this world. In the complete absence of ego  you'd be lying in your room and drooling over the carpet. Maybe I'm exaggerating..but you get the point.

In the light of this..I think it's quite understandable why the ego is so "sticky'' even if you've had some glimpses into your true nature.

Anyways ..Good post .

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

the light of this..I think it's quite understandable why the ego is so "sticky'' even if you've had some glimpses into your true nature

Your true nature is the nature of the ego. The ego is a construction of the reality, same than anything else. The ego is not a thought, it's an energetic structure that the reality build, same than a star or a plant. 

 

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

Anyways ..Good post .

Great that you appreciate 

[Schizophonia]

@Breakingthewall You should like Carl Jung work, maybe you already consumed it.

 

Edited July 10 by Schizophonia

[Someone here]

@Breakingthewall

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The ego is not a thought, it's an energetic structure that the reality build, same than a star or a plant. 

And what is a star or a plant exactly made of ?

 btw what do you think of this quote from Shunyamurti:

"free yourself from any identity except that of pure awareness itself. From that point, the egosystem will spontaneously modify itself according to the higher order of the intelligence that you have recognized. There is nothing you need to do. "

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, Schizophonia said:

@Breakingthewall You should like Carl Jung work, maybe you already consumed it.

 

I never read, I checked in Chatgpt. i don't share that about univerlsal archetypes, seems too magical, it's much more simpler. Just evolution. But he's interesting, he sees the psyche as an alive structure, open, always in movement. that's true, but then seems that he gets is a mess talking about the soul

[Breakingthewall]

6 minutes ago, Someone here said:

And what is a star or a plant exactly made of ?

Made of relations, same than anything else. 

7 minutes ago, Someone here said:

free yourself from any identity except that of pure awareness itself. From that point, the egosystem will spontaneously modify itself according to the higher order of the intelligence that you have recognized. There is nothing you need to do. "

Absolutely limited, awareness is a limit. The absolute is not awareness or conciousness, awareness is just relation, same than a plant. The absolute is absolute with or without awareness. As the absolute is limitlessness, absolute potential, awareness happens. But it's something that happens, without movement there is not awareness. 

[Someone here]

10 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Absolutely limited, awareness is a limit. The absolute is not awareness or conciousness, awareness is just relation, same than a plant. The absolute is absolute with or without awareness. As the absolute is limitlessness, absolute potential, awareness happens. But it's something that happens, without movement there is not awareness. 

Seems like you confuse awareness with perception or the five senses .

Who or what is aware of the idea of the absence of awareness? 

[Breakingthewall]

8 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Who or what is aware of the idea of the absence of awareness? 

Me, a relational node that is operating now. The absolute is limitlessness. That is the essence of everything. Since there are no limits, fluctuation occurs, the breaking of symmetry, differentiation, relative movement in limitlessness, or of limitlessness with respect to itself, is the same. This movement is multiplied by infinity; it has never begun; it has always been; it is absolutely expanded and cannot be thought.

This infinite relative movement flows upon itself, creating infinite structures of the same reality, different facets, expressions of the bottomless abyss. It seems mysterious, but it is not. The fact of the absence of bottom and limits gives rise to totality; it is obvious and inevitable. You are that, and everything that exists is also. Manifestation is inevitable; there is always form, but the essence is always the same: the whole. You can see it whenever you want, just make the form transparent. also the manifestation is absolutely interconnected, you could perceive it without doubt 

Edited July 10 by Breakingthewall

[Someone here]

@Breakingthewall you know..its great that you have your own model of reality or your own unique understanding of such details . For me personally I always acknowledge that there is a lot of stuff which I don't know and I might die as Someone here before knowing it and I'm coming to peace with that . 

Matters such as absolute reality ..infinity ..inevitable ramifications of reality being unlimited are not to be treated lightly . So I appreciate your efforts sharing your understanding of these things here . I would just ask you to dial down the absolutism and certainty plus putting a fucking picture of your face in your profile .it's kinda weird that I've been talking with a person online for 6 years now without knowing how he looks like .

Enjoy!🥂 

[Breakingthewall]

21 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Matters such as absolute reality ..infinity ..inevitable ramifications of reality being unlimited are not to be treated lightly

It's easy, just remove what is impossible, then what is inevitable remains 

Edited July 10 by Breakingthewall

[Sugarcoat]

So you’re saying the structure of the self is as real as the structure of the table in my living room?

But then maybe what the non dualists say is that there’s no separation so there’s not a separate table. In the same way there’s not a separate self. So that’s the illusion, that there’s actually a defined separate self. So maybe you’re saying you could see the totality so that is absence of limits, then within that the self is the same except it’s no longer experienced as “absolutely separate” (the normal experience)

So for example right now I feel absolutely real so there’s no illusion in that?

Edited July 10 by Sugarcoat

[Breakingthewall]

9 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

So you’re saying the structure of the self is as real as the structure of the table in my living room?

But then maybe what the non dualists say is that there’s no separation so there’s not a separate table. In the same way there’s not a separate self. So that’s the illusion, that there’s actually a defined separate self. So maybe you’re saying you could see the totality so that is absence of limits, then within that the self is the same except it’s no longer experienced as “absolutely separate” (the normal experience)

 

The self is as real as a table, but more definite, more than a table as a plant, It's a structure that carries within itself the pattern of its form. A table isn't that. A universe is. The self is a universe within another universe, like any life form. An any living (and not living) being it is interconnected with all of reality, but it is a defined relational structure. Defined does not mean separate, since it is connected in all its dimensions. But while it exists, it is a defined living structure. Real, definite, with apparent limits, like a cell or a plant. 

Edited July 10 by Breakingthewall

[James123]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

It's not an ideology, it's a description, it's different. An ideology is a sistem of beliefs, a description is when you see a fact and then you translate in words. For example: big stones are difficult to handle.

Who teach you those are stones?

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, James123 said:

Who teach you those are stones?

I saw one very big and I tried to move, I couldn't. I don't care the name, was a thing in the middle of my way so heavy. 

[James123]

14 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I saw one very big and I tried to move, I couldn't. I don't care the name, was a thing in the middle of my way so heavy. 

How you learned that that's a stone, go back till how you learned the universe or movement. Till you forget everything as before so called birth, i meet you there.